Updates on the Fight for Quality Public Education in Brevard County, FL
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11:39 » Good afternoon.
11:40 The February 7th, 2023 board work session is now in order.
11:44 Call, roll call, please.
11:46 » Here.
11:53 » Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.
11:54 » I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of
12:00 America.
12:02 And to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God,
12:08 indivisible,
12:08 with liberty and justice for all.
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12:13 » Thank you, everybody.
12:14 Thank you, everybody.
12:17 Just wanted to go over a couple of things I was gonna say due to
12:21 the fact that we
12:22 have so many policies.
12:24 If we can, as a board, agree that we may only speak at one time
12:28 up to three
12:28 minutes rather than a longer time period, we might be able to
12:31 get through it.
12:33 Doesn’t mean that you can’t respond and stuff like that.
12:35 But opening statements and stuff like that, more than three
12:37 minutes,
12:38 we can move through.
12:39 Is that okay with everybody?
12:41 Good, okay.
12:42 The other thing is that due to the fact that we have so
12:45 many of these agenda items moving forward, we’re gonna have to
12:49 move through.
12:50 But in the event that we don’t get through to all of them,
12:53 we’re gonna roll them to the board meeting.
12:55 And I would like to time certain end at 4.30.
12:58 That way it gives us an opportunity to get something to eat,
13:01 if that’s okay with everybody, okay?
13:04 Also, many of you guys, as we go through these, as talking to Dr.
13:09 Schiller,
13:09 we’re gonna put as we move through them, after they go through,
13:13 the revision of 2023, even if we don’t make any decisions on
13:16 them.
13:17 Like if we just say good, then they get revised.
13:20 So good to go.
13:21 Any questions on that?
13:22 » Reviewed.
13:24 » Reviewed, right.
13:25 » It’s like revision 2023, review 2023, whatever the
13:28 appropriate verbiage is there.
13:30 They’ll appropriately apply it.
13:32 Are we good?
13:33 » Yeah.
13:34 » All right, the next topic is board policy 0169.1,
13:37 participation at board meetings.
13:40 Mr. Paul Gibbs, please address the board.
13:43 » Good afternoon.
13:44 This policy is brought back to the board.
13:46 The board’s request to address the change in public speaking
13:50 policy in the board.
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14:16 Do any members wish to discuss this policy or make suggestions
14:19 for a revision?
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14:50 Everybody else okay with it?
15:02 Any questions?
15:04 So one of the things I would like to talk about, just so you
15:07 guys know,
15:08 is that part of what we’ve had a problem with is other people
15:11 signing other people up.
15:13 Because they’re racing from work, from Kennedy Space Center or
15:16 somewhere else.
15:18 And the issue is that when we start our meetings at 5.30,
15:21 somebody may get here at 5.35, right?
15:23 And they really wanted to speak to something.
15:25 So the county, what they do is they allow them to sign up up
15:28 until the public discussion moment.
15:30 I’m gonna entertain that as a thought process because I feel,
15:34 look, the majority of people come here, right?
15:37 But if you get a flat tire and this is your one thing that you
15:39 really wanted to speak to,
15:41 I would like to allow them up until we start the public
15:45 discussion to actually signing up.
15:48 If that was the thought process, I wanted to hear what your
15:52 thoughts on that were.
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16:11 » Yeah, I agree.
16:34 The more opportunity we have for the public to speak, the better.
16:39 I think that would be, it’s nothing but a good thing.
16:43 » And we’ll allow staff here to put together a process for them
16:46 to administer that.
16:48 » Sure.
16:49 » But I think that the idea is that we’ve had students that
16:51 come in, being here for six years,
16:54 and even as a teacher, there’s times when you just don’t run and
16:56 pine, and it’s a sad moment.
16:58 So if everybody’s okay with that.
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17:31 » Hang on just a second.
17:34 You mentioned one other thing.
17:36 One of the problems that we’ve had recently is that the papers
17:36 kind of get shuffled and all that stuff.
17:43 I would like to, under the guise of the board and direction,
17:47 to allow staff to try to present to us possibly a more digital
17:47 format so that people can come up and sign in digitally.
17:54 So that that becomes more of a form system than a bunch of
17:56 handwritten.
17:58 » Easier to read.
18:00 » And it’s not saying that we’re gonna move forward in this
18:01 direction.
18:02 » Right.
18:03 » I would just like the staff to entertain looking at it to see
18:06 if there’s an opportunity for them to streamline the process a
18:08 little bit better.
18:10 » So there’s, sorry.
18:12 So they’re still having to do it in person, but maybe an iPad
18:15 sign in type thing?
18:17 » Yeah.
18:18 If you watch, so there has been some, there was a lady who came
18:21 up here, I don’t know if you guys remember the other day.
18:24 And she was wanting to speak and somebody had, just like we’ve
18:27 allowed people in the past, signed up her name for her and stuff
18:30 like that.
18:31 I watched the video.
18:32 But then what I also watched was all of the process of them
18:34 sitting out there going through all that stuff.
18:37 And I was like, oh my gosh.
18:38 Like we should be able to go up and have a couple of iPads to
18:40 sign in.
18:41 It all, you know what I mean, accumulates.
18:43 You could have a drop down menu that it talks to exactly those
18:45 agenda items.
18:46 I mean it’s just a better process.
18:48 But I don’t know what that looks like.
18:49 I just wanted to ask that if that’s okay by you guys to just
18:52 move forward in that direction.
18:54 » So I, I don’t remember what I was going to say now.
18:58 So another benefit of waiting and allowing people to sign a
19:01 little bit later is we have some more meetings where the
19:05 beginning is excessively long.
19:07 And they’re sitting here waiting just because we told them they
19:09 had to sign up by 5.30.
19:11 Which isn’t fair to some people that legitimately have to be
19:13 home and doing things they can sit here for an hour sometimes
19:15 before public comment comes up.
19:18 And it’s not really very public.
19:20 » Sure.
19:21 » When it comes to the electronic sign up, as long as they’re
19:25 able to sign up themselves.
19:27 Because we cannot require them to have to show identification to
19:30 sign up to make a public comment.
19:33 So forcing them to tell someone their name and address is going
19:37 to be not really kosher.
19:39 And when it comes to watching the video, I know that there was
19:43 accusations made and calling people saying that our staff
19:47 members threw out the paper.
19:50 That wasn’t true.
19:52 So I don’t really think there’s a need for it.
19:55 I don’t think we’ve ever had a real problem before if it’s a
19:57 burden for our staff to do.
19:59 But at a fair minimum, if we do it, it has to be free so that
20:02 the public signs themselves.
20:04 » Yeah.
20:05 The idea is the same process except digitally.
20:08 That individual, what had happened is somebody else had signed
20:11 them up.
20:12 And because they weren’t there at the time, the appropriate
20:14 person said, no, you can’t come and speak because you weren’t
20:17 here.
20:18 You can’t sign that up.
20:19 So that was it.
20:20 And I watched the video and I was going to try to email her that
20:24 so that she could see that.
20:26 But the issue was that I tried to email it on the server and it
20:29 was too big.
20:30 So anyways, so everybody’s okay with looking for a digital
20:33 option as long as it follows the same process of them signing up
20:37 themselves.
20:39 » Right.
20:40 » Yeah.
20:41 » So we’re not putting that in the policy?
20:42 » No.
20:43 It’s just practice.
20:44 It’s just that we’re here.
20:45 » It’s a work channel.
20:46 » Is everybody okay with that?
20:47 » Mm-hmm.
20:48 » All right.
20:49 You guys have the direction that you need from the board for
20:52 those pieces?
20:53 Or do we need to be able to tell them?
20:56 It’s pretty simple, right Paul?
20:58 [ Inaudible ]
21:05 » Yeah.
21:06 And it’s just an observation that it’s possible.
21:08 It’s not like we do it if it doesn’t work out.
21:10 It’s not like we’re making you do it.
21:12 All right?
21:13 » Mm-hmm.
21:14 » Okay.
21:15 Everybody good there?
21:16 Next topic is board policy 9800, charter schools.
21:18 Ms. Jane Klein, please address the board.
21:21 » Good afternoon, board.
21:23 This policy is – excuse me, 9800, charter schools.
21:28 The charter school policy has been amended to include new
21:31 language from EOLA revised
21:34 in 2022 to reflect statutory language, including the removal of
21:39 language regarding charter
21:42 closure in addition of the language regarding charter school
21:45 review commission, deadlines
21:48 related to new charter school applications.
21:51 The older version did not include any EOLA language.
21:55 These proposed revisions encompass the suggested language from EOLA.
22:00 The previous policy 9800 was vague and did not encompass the EOLA
22:05 language.
22:07 Changes include substantive incorporation of the charter statute.
22:12 » Are there any questions by the board?
22:16 Any questions by the board?
22:17 » Yes, I have one.
22:19 » In regards to the art committee, the application review
22:21 committee, I think it’s on page 58.
22:25 It looks like the district gets to assign certain people that
22:29 will be part of that application
22:31 review committee.
22:32 Is it possible to add possibly a school board member on that
22:35 committee as well?
22:37 » I have to check statute on that.
22:39 » Okay.
22:40 If you don’t mind just checking, because we have an even number
22:40 right now on the committee,
22:42 which could pose a problem when it comes to voting anyway.
22:44 So it seems that it might be good for – and especially since
22:46 the board will be ultimately
22:48 the one that reviews and approves or denies those charters.
22:51 All right, thank you.
23:19 » I’ve got a few – this was a long edition.
23:25 And Dr. Roberts even told me it was coming.
23:28 Let’s see.
23:29 I’m just going to the clean version because the red line version
23:33 is hard to read.
23:35 So under 183 – and I actually think this was in the old policy.
23:41 But just to help me, and I’m sorry to be a rich person, this is
23:46 a really long – I promise
23:49 everything else is going to be short.
23:51 So materially I like the law.
23:53 Can you give me an example of what that might look like?
23:58 » No.
23:59 [ Laughter ]
24:01 » Oh, that’s a true question.
24:04 [ Inaudible ]
24:26 » It’s 125.
24:37 [ Inaudible ]
24:55 » But I think if I can speak to that, I think what they’re
25:12 saying is that we can bring them
25:16 in and materially violating the law means that we are violating
25:22 the law and we can apply.
25:25 I didn’t want us as a whole or anybody listening to say that we
25:28 can’t – somebody breaks the
25:30 law, we can’t apply it to them.
25:32 Just understand the stability of the process.
25:34 [ Inaudible ]
25:42 » I purposely – I think it’s perfectly broad and not specific.
25:47 The history of Florida state laws to not necessarily only apply
25:50 to charter schools or loosely or
25:53 broadly apply to charter schools.
25:55 And I think the intention is so that school districts are still
25:58 liable if something is
26:00 against the law to bring it to their attention.
26:02 But ultimately they can decide whether or not they break the law.
26:05 [ Inaudible ]
26:32 » Would this preclude someone who, for example, managed a
26:37 charter that was shut down from
26:37 applying for a new charter that –
26:40 » That would be something we would take into consideration.
26:43 [ Inaudible ]
26:51 » – basically talk about as we’re going through the process,
27:02 we can look into someone’s background and say, have they – have
27:04 they successfully done it before? Maybe not so successfully.
27:06 Mike, can you hear her better?
27:12 [ Inaudible ]
27:22 » So, yes, we can look into the background of anyone and all
27:26 that would come to you when we do the charter school application
27:30 process. We haven’t gone through a charter school application
27:35 process in two years now and the one we currently are working
27:39 through, they’re on hold again.
27:42 But we do all that background research on who’s applying with
27:46 the application.
27:48 [ Inaudible ]
28:25 » Yes, it certainly would have been had the research been done
28:28 prior because that was in another state, the same situation.
28:33 [ Inaudible ]
29:42 » So next section, K – this is going to be on page 141.
29:50 Actually, no, I’m sorry, 142. 142. KLM and really continuing on
29:58 talk about what it takes for us to close a charter school.
30:01 [ Inaudible ]
32:21 » We discussed some really amazing charter schools. But at the
32:23 same time, when we had a situation where we had a bad situation,
32:28 it took us two years and a half million dollars. Three years and
32:31 half a million dollars.
32:33 [ Inaudible ]
32:49 » Ms. Campbell, the one thing that we continue to do is to
32:52 elevate the charter schools that are doing amazing work.
32:57 And we go in and support the ones who are struggling to get them
33:02 back on track. And then take – start the action when we need to.
33:10 [ Inaudible ]
33:30 » Thank you, Ms. Jenkins.
33:32 [ Inaudible ]
33:50 » No, it’s two consecutive Ds. And then we start with the
33:53 bureau school improvement. Then if we go to an F, we start the
33:57 process of turnaround, which we’ve only had to do that one time
34:01 in Brevard’s history.
34:03 [ Inaudible ]
34:30 » So we bring them all to you. And if you do not agree with the
34:34 financial plan, that’s number one with the charter schools, the
34:38 financial plan.
34:40 If the financial plan is solid, then we typically go through –
34:44 they also have to bring their educational plan. You know, if it’s
34:50 going to be a performing arts charter or a – any topic, then
34:54 they have to bring their educational curriculum plan to us.
35:00 And so as the board, you review it, they have already – they’re
35:04 already working to establish their own board who will guide them.
35:10 But we’re basically an overseer.
35:14 And the team that I have, they go in – the assistant director
35:19 of the charter goes into about three reviews a year into walking
35:24 the school and checking for fidelity of work.
35:29 [ Inaudible ]
35:40 » But essentially, legally, we have to watch them cross their
35:47 teeth, dot their I’s, and there’s really nothing we can do
35:54 unless it’s something really absurd within their application.
36:03 And then even if we were to go as before to deny an application,
36:03 there’s really nothing we can do anyway because it appeals to
36:04 the state and the state ends up approving it anyway. So even
36:05 though this is an insanely long policy, we don’t really have
36:06 much to worry about.
36:07 » Thank you, Ms. Jenkins. And I would remind everybody that in
36:14 our county, it’s a little bit different the way that we are, our
36:16 relationship. There are other counties that the state has gone
36:18 through this type of design because the county does the opposite
36:19 of what we do, which is allowing them. And they never accept
36:22 them. They never let them come forward and it becomes a wall. So
36:26 to apply the same dynamics in our county that others are doing
36:29 is a little bit different, but I just want to say that.
36:32 » With anybody else, any other comments? Good to go. All right.
36:36 Next topic is board policy 3120.11, preference for veterans and
36:41 employers. Ms. Carol Green, please address the board.
36:45 » Good afternoon, Dr. Schiller, Mr. Susan, members of the board.
36:49 We are presenting a new policy for preference for veterans and
36:53 employment in order to be in alliance with Florida Statute 1012.32,
36:58 which is preference for veterans and employment. The purpose of
37:02 this policy is to ensure compliance with all the applicable
37:06 federal and state laws, Florida State Board of Education rules.
37:10 And from the approval of this policy, we will revise our
37:14 administrative procedures and train our staff related to
37:18 veterans preference.
37:20 » Thank you, Ms. Green. Is there anybody else that wishes to
37:36 discuss this?
37:41 All right. Next topic is board policy 5121, control open
37:45 enrollment. Ms. Klein, can you please address the board?
37:50 » Certainly. This policy is being updated based on new state
37:53 statute and language concerning updates to Florida Statute 1002.31,
37:59 control open enrollment. Public school parental choice.
38:03 The new addition is to require school districts to maintain a
38:08 wait list of students who do not access due to capacity and
38:13 notify parents when space becomes available and to post an
38:18 updated list of schools with grade level capacity every 12 weeks.
38:25 This policy is being revised for technical changes only. These
38:35 proposed revisions do encompass the language in NEOLA.
38:35 » Thank you, Ms. Klein. Is there anybody that wishes to address
38:38 any of the issues in the control open enrollment?
38:41 » Yeah. I just – because of the way this sounds to the public,
38:52 I just want to ask. Because it’s my understanding, at least the
38:56 ones that I’ve interacted with, I’ve not interacted with all of
38:57 our schools of choice, that they themselves were keeping a list
38:58 and a wait list. So I just – if you could confirm or deny that
38:59 that should be happening, I just want our public to know that we
39:00 were doing that if we were.
39:01 » We did not have a district-wide process. Schools were, but
39:09 now we have a public-facing process so that we can constantly
39:16 open seats based on capacity.
39:21 » So that – we had changed our policy the last time we
39:26 adjusted it to allow those schools, the choice schools. But this
39:32 is applying to every single school, right? Every single school.
39:33 » Okay. So I was asked the question how this would apply to
39:36 special programs like EPO, I mean, obviously, if someone’s in
39:40 the – if they’re going to transfer in the middle of March and
39:43 they have been a part of, let’s say, construction or a welding
39:46 program, you know, they can’t really attend a March and Genesis
39:50 welding program, but maybe they can go ahead and get into the
39:53 school. So what is that going to look like for the students to
39:57 be able to move in the middle of a term?
40:00 » So it is program availability as well. So if the program
40:04 doesn’t have seats or cannot start a student in the middle of a
40:08 term, then they would continue to be on the wait list. However,
40:13 you know, I’m going to live in my world of kindergarten.
40:18 » So you have a kindergarten child on the wait list at West
40:21 Melbourne School of Science, which we always do, and a student
40:25 leaves. Then that next child, we will start that roll up
40:29 immediately.
40:31 » Right. But the difference is now we’ll also have availability
40:35 at Meddling or Oxnard or –
40:37 » Absolutely. Any time that the seats have become available,
40:41 that rolling wait list of EPOs.
40:44 » Right. And not just at the school, but at the specific grade
40:47 level.
40:48 » That is correct. We have worked with facilities, Karen Black,
40:53 to build a document that shows per class, per seat, and then the
40:58 principal goes in and verifies that that is true, and we open up
41:03 those seats.
41:05 » Okay.
41:06 » We are having very few actual seats available, but –
41:10 » Okay. And just one final thing. How does this play with our
41:15 current process? Do we still have our – like right now, we’ve
41:18 been – we would normally in February from this time open up the
41:22 EPOs and ELOs for secondary right now.
41:26 So if you want to be in the Cambridge program at other Cambridge
41:26 schools or in the welding program or something outside of your
41:28 – the magnet school, all of that, now is the time. Are we still
41:40 going to do that and we’re just going to do this continuous
41:40 enrollment on top of that?
41:40 » That is correct.
41:41 » Okay. Okay. That was the question that was asked. All right.
41:45 Thank you.
41:47 » I just have one question. So this policy says that it’s going
41:51 to be advertised on the district’s website.
41:53 Is this going to be also advertised on the specific school
41:56 website, the vacancies or the capacity of the wait list?
42:01 » I haven’t looked into that. We’re having to maintain it.
42:05 » Okay.
42:06 » So we’re updating it constantly. I don’t know what a hardship
42:11 on a school that would be to actually – because it changes
42:15 every time that – every 12 weeks we change it.
42:19 » Yeah.
42:20 » We can certainly look into what that would look like on a
42:22 school website.
42:24 » I think it’s just – it’s helpful for a parent because a lot
42:26 of times a parent is researching a specific school, so they don’t
42:28 necessarily go to BPS’s page, their overall page. They go to the
42:31 specific school’s page.
42:33 So if they knew, hey, we have this school of choice has this
42:35 long of a wait versus the other one, it wouldn’t be helpful.
42:39 » Okay. We’ll look into it.
42:41 » Thank you.
42:42 » Anybody else? » I have a couple of things. So one of the
42:51 issues that I recently dealt with from a school where we have
42:53 some students that are trying to transfer into another school,
42:56 our capacity during the transfer deals with how much capacity is
43:01 inside each grade level.
43:04 And what I know, and many of you know, too, is that you may sit
43:08 there at this capacity, but each one of those classrooms is of
43:13 different numbers, so you may have opportunities for the
43:17 individual to be able to apply and still get in.
43:21 Are we asking the principals at grade level? So when a student
43:26 applies, my question would be how do we come up with a number
43:31 per grade level that are allowed?
43:35 And then in the event that it’s higher than that number to allow
43:38 this person and it’s closed, do we allow the principal like a
43:41 check verification that they may have to work? Does that make
43:45 sense?
43:45 » Every 12 weeks when we roll this, the principal verifies that
43:49 this is accurate information because we’re going from what
43:53 facility says and we want that actual because as a principal, I
43:57 may know someone is withdrawing tomorrow and facilities doesn’t
44:02 know that yet. So yes, the principal –
44:05 » So we check with them and say, hey, we have this transfer.
44:08 Just to be honest with you, everybody, sometimes the
44:12 relationship a student has with a principal is an issue and they
44:16 just need to begin, right?
44:18 And sometimes with extraordinary circumstances, the opportunity
44:21 to transfer may be not working on the computer, but it might
44:25 just actually be a problem for the principal. So as long as we’re
44:28 doing those kind of things, I really appreciate that.
44:31 » The other thing is that there’s a couple of places inside of
44:34 here where we talk about fish capacity and we shut down the
44:37 school at 95%, right? And that’s always been an issue that is
44:41 good because we have big stock capacity and everything else.
44:46 But there’s other times inside of here where it says, and I’m
44:49 referring to 2C on page 31 of the actual policy, the
44:53 superintendent or the superintendent’s designee agrees a school
44:57 to new incoming education EOL requests regardless of the
45:01 projected student enrollment capacity ratio, right?
45:06 I’ve found this in the past to be kind of difficult because
45:09 there’s schools that I feel should be open and then all of a
45:13 sudden we find out that they’re closed. So what I would propose
45:16 is that we add with the approval of the board.
45:18 So this is not something I want to discuss with you, but this
45:23 allows the superintendent’s designee, which would be the person
45:29 in charge of this department, to just be able to say this is
45:35 closed without the approval of the board. This doesn’t happen
45:40 very often. It’s not something that comes around every year, all
45:40 the time, but once a year they make these things.
45:40 So last year or year before, I don’t know, within the past few
45:44 years, we raised it from 90% capacity to 95% because we realized
45:50 that there were seats available and mine and Dr. Sullivan’s
45:56 belief, I’m speaking for her, is that when a child or parent
46:01 wants a certain school, we need to do everything within our
46:04 power to get them to that school.
46:07 So we raised it to 95% and with the belief of we truly are not
46:12 trying to close any school with capacity unless they truly have
46:18 no seats available.
46:21 And with the rolling open wait list now, we can open it by grade
46:25 level. So we’re not closing an entire school, we’re opening, you
46:30 know, there’s kindergarten seats here, there’s fifth grade seats
46:36 here, but that is the difference in that 90 to 95 and the
46:40 rolling wait list now every 12 weeks.
46:44 But we can definitely look into any of your suggestions.
47:14 I would like to have approval on those kind of options.
47:20 I have a question just to be clear for the verbiage of what you’re
47:23 looking for. So you’re wanting board notification or you’re
47:25 wanting board approval?
47:27 I would like that if we’re going to shut down schools on an
47:30 annual basis that we approve those shutdowns.
47:33 It’s going to hit 95%. That’s fine. But we also just have a list
47:36 at the beginning of every year that we shut down whenever that
47:39 time comes.
47:40 So the past two years, we I think I have two elementary schools
47:44 that we close to ELOs.
47:48 But now we have the rolling new statute language for the rolling
47:51 wait list.
47:52 So that truly negates that closed because if there’s seats
47:57 available, we are statutorily required to open them up.
48:04 Yes, my thing was I had a couple of instances where a parent
48:07 applied, didn’t know that it was closed because it wasn’t going
48:10 on the pager list and somebody decided to close it.
48:12 And it just kind of became a very incident. But if you guys feel
48:15 like that is not an indicator and if the board has a thing where
48:19 we just find out about it, we can open it, whatever that is and
48:20 there’s some flexibility in there.
48:22 I’m OK with that. I don’t want to create a slowing down process.
48:25 I do just want to be able to have the final say rather than
48:27 somebody internally just saying we’re closing the school without
48:30 us knowing about it.
48:32 That’s all I miss. So when I saw you coming in, what do you have?
48:37 So I believe that that list of frozen schools, I think is what
48:41 you’re referring to.
48:44 That’s what I thought it was. But it does come before the board.
48:47 And so and so in recent history, I can’t recall any that were
48:52 frozen for any reason other than capacity.
48:56 I think long ago, perhaps, but certainly not in our contemporary
49:00 history here. So so it does go to the board.
49:03 So it does come before the board inside of there. Is there any
49:06 way to add that to this so that we know that this will be a
49:09 group of student progression plan once a year?
49:12 Yeah, if it’s not if it’s not frozen again, then we is not so
49:37 every year we’re going to bring forward 10 schools.
49:39 Right. So my concern is that we’re the end all be all.
49:49 I get that it’s a combination of taking action for that. My
49:56 concern would be that who has the authority to unfreeze it
50:04 because then you’re waiting for board approval.
50:11 My question was, is just to make sure that there’s some sort of
50:15 a trigger that there was some questions we’d be able to get to.
50:20 So I don’t want to inhibit the process. I think we’re you know,
50:23 I’m happy to make whatever change you’d like.
50:26 But I believe with the new statutory language of the rolling
50:29 enrollment, we’re not going to be.
50:32 And I will tell you, we are not freezing schools like previous
50:37 history because my belief parents get to choose where they want
50:43 your children to be.
50:46 OK, well, I think we’re OK. We don’t need that.
50:49 I think that with that whole piece, it gives us a freedom option
50:52 that we didn’t have prior to when this was going on.
50:55 So I really appreciate it. And just for example, this year, the
50:58 only school that I’ve ever frozen were the high school and
51:01 satellite and which are clearly.
51:04 But we’ve got a little bit on the line right here. We’ll fill it
51:09 up in a heartbeat.
51:11 OK. Next thing I have is this has always been a vein of my piece
51:16 here.
51:17 We love discussion on it. Currently, our teachers and I
51:21 apologize if you guys can go to page 32, it says preferential
51:27 applications for preferential treatment.
51:29 And then it goes down into the tier system under G. OK.
51:33 So if you notice in tier one, which is just to give an overview
51:37 of what I’m speaking to, you have an application.
51:40 Everybody gets put into these tiers. And then depending on how
51:43 many tier one goes first, tier two goes second, tier two goes
51:46 third.
51:47 So you actually have teachers who may be working at school who
51:50 are not able to bring their student.
51:52 And I need some clarification on this just to make sure I’m
51:54 feeling it right.
51:56 That if I’m a teacher, I moved to that school, that school is
51:58 either closed or I’m applying to have that student inside of
52:01 there.
52:02 That they may be involved and be below a person that is either
52:05 relocated to foster care, military personnel or these other
52:09 things.
52:10 Is that true or are they allowed to take a job?
52:14 We take care of our teachers first.
52:16 I know. But that says tier two. Is there a way we can add them
52:22 to tier one?
52:24 Yeah, military is law. Children. So, you know, site based
52:30 employees are tier two.
52:33 My thought process was and we had it in the past where people
52:37 have gone, got a job.
52:39 And this comes up because there’s a discussion about transfers
52:41 and stuff like that currently.
52:43 So if a parent decides that they need to transfer from one
52:45 school to the other and it’s closed, they may want to be able to
52:48 bring their child under the curtain conditions.
52:51 We may not be able to do that. I would love to just say that
52:55 students of parents should just be able to follow them no matter
53:00 what.
53:01 The only unintended consequence could be, that’s our new word
53:06 today, the tier one are the by law required that we have to
53:12 accommodate.
53:14 Our tier two are ones we in our heart want to accommodate. So in
53:21 the event that this school is next to capacity and we have one
53:26 of the required by law, we have to take care of them first.
53:32 So I’m not in my awareness, I have not known of a teacher who
53:37 was turned down of her, his or her child attending a school is
53:43 there.
53:44 So let me ask you this. If I have a dependent child of active
53:47 military personnel and I only have one seat left and a child who
53:51 has been relocated due to foster care.
53:57 Who’s first? Who’s second? A is first. A is first. And honestly,
54:04 I think A, even if we’re at capacity, we have to accept military,
54:06 you have to like, even out of like West Shore, but if they come
54:10 in, even if we’re full, we take them because that’s lost.
54:14 So my proposal would be then, if that is the process, that we
54:17 add D and we put employees under D so that they could be
54:19 considered tier one since we already have a system that we allow
54:23 the others in the head of.
54:25 I’m looking at my friend, Mr. Gibbs.
54:40 If it doesn’t break statute, it would mean the world to our
54:42 people to know that they’re in tier one, because there’s people
54:45 that look at that and they say, we feel like we’re a part of it,
54:47 we’re in tier two, it doesn’t make sense.
54:50 And if that order is already existing in tier one. So we’ll look
54:56 at the statute and this will come back to you.
55:02 Next thing is, is that there’s number seven deals with, and I’m
55:10 sorry, I’m going to, I was trying to get the page numbers here.
55:20 Seven deals with multiple sports. So let me go here after and
55:21 rolls.
55:21 So basically, and I apologize because I did not write them down
55:25 inside of the page numbers.
55:27 There’s an application inside there that says that if I’m
55:30 playing a sport, then I transfer to another school that I can’t
55:33 finish out that season, which I totally understand, except for
55:36 some of those.
55:37 But there’s a problem in there’s transfers where students
55:39 transfer from one school to another, they’ve completed their
55:42 football, and then there’s a thing called spring football.
55:46 So we’re not limiting them from playing spring football, correct?
55:50 Does that make sense?
55:54 I’m phoning a friend in the back for my secondary world.
55:59 It’s considered a different season. It’s considered a lot of
56:01 different things, but I just don’t want to get into it.
56:09 Not knowing I’d be asked this question, I would definitely refer
56:14 to the product, but what I can tell you for a long time,
56:19 principal, spring by FHSA is an extension of fall.
56:24 And so when the eligibility to participate in a game is attached
56:29 to fall, so typically what we’ve done, and again, I’m just
56:34 speaking off experience now since it’s not my thing.
56:40 What we’ve done is students who transfer in January can
56:43 participate in the working out program and things like that.
56:48 They cannot participate in a spring game. And so historically
56:51 speaking, that’s not been super problematic.
56:55 So if a child transfers from school A to school B in January, at
56:59 school B they can do the working out, they can do the
57:02 conditioning, they can do all of that.
57:05 They just can’t do the actual spring game. A lot of our schools
57:08 have actually gone to scrimmages on like red, black, things like
57:12 that.
57:13 So it has not been a barrier. I would have referred to official
57:17 from obviously our athletic director, but in practice it’s not
57:22 been problematic, but it is attached to fall eligibility.
57:26 So kids that are seniors don’t play in the spring ball game. So
57:29 you’re saying that it’s attached to fall eligibility and that
57:32 juniors on down are the only ones that are allowed to
57:35 participate, but in the event that they want to.
57:37 Listen, it’s just a workout anyway. So it totally understands as
57:40 long as they can practice and do that.
57:43 Not the seniors, but the juniors and below. Yes, correct.
57:47 As long as it’s a proper transfer in January, then it’s not
57:51 problematic at all.
57:53 They just work it out with them. Correct.
57:56 And again, for official word on that, I would certainly defer to
57:59 our current expert just speaking from what I know has been true
58:03 in the past.
58:04 Thank you for that. You might want to hang out just for a second,
58:08 because you are a secondary principal and this kind of comes to
58:09 you too.
58:10 I mean, you’re five times a champion secondary.
58:15 Here’s the question is, is that currently we have homeschool
58:18 students that we’re about to do a large attraction for to try to
58:21 have them start to participate.
58:23 Certainly.
58:24 One of the things is we know that they have their Rebar Heat,
58:27 but then they also have the opportunity to play for their zone
58:30 schools.
58:31 Correct.
58:32 In the event those homeschool students are allowed to try out,
58:37 they don’t need to.
58:39 Can you explain to me what that process is and is there anything
58:41 in here that we need to add to allow them to streamline process?
58:45 I am going to unofficially, without like permanent marker, tell
58:50 you what I believe is still true.
58:53 Those students have to declare and do some corresponding
58:57 paperwork at the start of the season.
59:00 And then they go through a process and it’s not problematic at
59:05 all, it’s pretty quick.
59:07 Where it’s tricky is when a student is looking to participate
59:12 outside their homeschool.
59:15 That’s a good finding.
59:16 If I live in Viera and I am a homeschool student and I want to
59:20 play any of Viera sports, it’s super fast.
59:24 You just work with the coaches prior to the first day of the
59:27 sport.
59:28 If I live in Viera and I want to play sports for CoCo, that
59:33 application for the choice has to be done in the application
59:38 period so that you have attached yourself.
59:41 It’s a very strange thing.
59:43 No, it’s applicable.
59:44 So if I want to apply to go to CoCo on choice, I go through the
59:48 standard application period.
59:51 If I’m a homeschool and I want to play a sport at CoCo and I don’t
59:55 live there, I have to also do the choice application period.
1:00:01 So if it’s my resident school, it’s easy peasy.
1:00:04 That’s official terminology.
1:00:06 Is that more applicable to that process that you spoke about?
1:00:08 It makes total sense to do the OOs and everything.
1:00:10 And that is specifically defined in here.
1:00:12 I saw that one.
1:00:13 Only if they’re out of their area.
1:00:14 But if they’re in zone and they’re trying out for their team,
1:00:17 would it be more applicable to applying their application
1:00:20 process to this or would they be inside of the homeschool policy
1:00:23 that we have?
1:00:24 Probably they are correct.
1:00:25 I mean, it’s outlined.
1:00:27 So there’s no barriers really to students that are applying in
1:00:30 their homeschool as homeschool or private school, students who
1:00:33 don’t have athletics or anything like that.
1:00:35 But sometimes we get coaches that may not know that process.
1:00:38 So as long as we have it inside of them.
1:00:40 Yeah, our athletic directors, we work with a lot of homeschool
1:00:42 students.
1:00:43 And so I think they thought it’s always just tricky when it’s
1:00:46 not a residential school.
1:00:48 Get it?
1:00:49 I have a question.
1:00:50 Okay.
1:00:51 Ms. Sullivan, I have a question along those same lines.
1:00:53 So if you have a student who is out of area and they’re
1:00:55 participating in a sport and say halfway through their family
1:00:59 decides to homeschool because of academics, they’re having some
1:01:02 struggles there and they want to continue in that sport.
1:01:05 How does that affect them?
1:01:07 Are they still able to continue in the sport or because now they’re
1:01:09 past the window of applying?
1:01:11 So I feel like yes, because they applied to go to that school.
1:01:16 So they did engage in the process.
1:01:19 They just so they’ve already been they’ve already requested the
1:01:22 out of assigned area.
1:01:24 Okay.
1:01:25 So we worked with a couple of those this year, I think, actually.
1:01:27 Okay.
1:01:28 All right.
1:01:29 I had a family that addressed me with that.
1:01:30 So thank you.
1:01:31 Yeah.
1:01:32 And I caution because every story is slightly different.
1:01:33 But in general, in that scenario, it would not be problematic if
1:01:37 a student was enrolled there and chose to go home to school.
1:01:40 They should be able to participate.
1:01:42 And they meet the eligibility requirements.
1:01:44 It’s eligibility requirements at homeschool are a little trickier.
1:01:47 So assuming those things are true.
1:01:49 Okay.
1:01:50 Thank you.
1:01:51 [inaudible]
1:02:12 So that’s a sort of.
1:02:14 Okay.
1:02:15 There’s a separate policy on foreign exchange students.
1:02:19 So I assume you’re talking about foreign exchange students and
1:02:22 students on a J visa.
1:02:24 Our current policy does give the principal the ability to either
1:02:31 accept a foreign exchange student on a J visa or not.
1:02:35 In practice, they accept them and it’s actually on our list of
1:02:38 policies to bring back to the board this semester.
1:02:47 There’s an actual separate policy for foreign exchange students.
1:02:50 Perfect.
1:02:51 And you’re going to bring that up.
1:02:52 We’ve got on the list.
1:02:53 I’m not saying next meeting.
1:02:54 It’s on the list.
1:02:56 That’s good.
1:02:57 That’s all I have.
1:02:58 Are there any other questions for the board members?
1:03:00 Okay.
1:03:01 I think that you have direction on that one.
1:03:04 Let me go to the next one.
1:03:06 The next topic is board policy 7440103.
1:03:10 Use of small unmanned aircraft systems in school and school
1:03:13 settings.
1:03:14 Carol Green, please address the board.
1:03:16 Thank you again.
1:03:18 This is also a new policy which is coming to the board.
1:03:21 The purpose of the proposed policy is to ensure compliance with
1:03:24 all the applicable federal and state laws.
1:03:27 Florida State Board of Ed rules or policies, et cetera.
1:03:31 It encompasses all of the NOLA language related to small
1:03:34 unmanned aircraft systems in school settings to include most
1:03:38 recently vendor types for for these vehicles.
1:03:43 It has a responsibility in there for teacher, student training,
1:03:49 et cetera.
1:03:51 Do any members of the board wish to discuss the other?
1:04:18 Well, if they meet the standards that are at the end of the
1:04:20 policy and the companies and the vendors that we’re allowed to
1:04:23 use.
1:04:24 Yeah.
1:04:32 Well, I want to echo that for getting those e-mails as well.
1:04:37 It’s really some of these schools have some really nice programs
1:04:40 set up that.
1:04:42 Yeah, I mean, literally grounded the program, I mean, if we can
1:04:46 do anything, you know, I’ve given my word, we’ll try to do
1:04:49 anything we can do.
1:04:51 So our department of risk management has really worked hard on
1:04:55 this.
1:04:56 And our I was going to speak for and second.
1:05:00 Yes.
1:05:01 So we have a coordinator of STEM and he is working to make that
1:05:06 communication clear to everyone working with all the companies.
1:05:11 So we are in constant contact with the state.
1:05:21 The law was passed. It didn’t come through the education
1:05:23 channels. It was intended as a business venture.
1:05:29 They originally had a way to extend the use of the drugs till
1:05:33 January one.
1:05:35 We didn’t actually get that there was a lot after January one.
1:05:38 So that link to extend ours wasn’t super helpful.
1:05:42 However, we’ve made a lot of progress. The state is looking at
1:05:46 modifying the language for educational use, for indoor use.
1:05:51 A lot of our drug usage is indoor. And we found some detailed
1:05:55 language in like this really thick administrative procedure book
1:06:01 that I’ve never seen because it’s not educational that talks
1:06:03 about payloads.
1:06:04 And that a drone is defined as carrying a payload. So we are
1:06:08 finding the language that would allow most of our drones to
1:06:14 still be used.
1:06:16 We’re working very, very vigilant and daily on it. We learned a
1:06:20 lot about drones.
1:06:22 And so in our drone competitions, we do do some payloads, but we
1:06:26 can make modifications with that.
1:06:30 And so we’re watching it literally every day. We’re driving the
1:06:33 DOE crazy every day.
1:06:35 And they do know some rulemaking has to happen because these
1:06:40 were, as my friend Jane Klein has said all afternoon, unintended
1:06:45 consequences.
1:06:47 So, thank you.
1:07:02 But we’re hearing from the parents.
1:07:10 Any other discussion on this.
1:07:17 Just so everybody knows that there’s a not only drones, but
1:07:20 there’s also many of the social media platforms and others are
1:07:24 now being banned from usage on federal property.
1:07:27 So space.
1:07:42 People just trying to make friends with their.
1:07:52 In section eight speaks that the school board is the operation
1:07:58 with basically the approval of the superintendent.
1:08:02 What do you guys feel about allowing the directors or the
1:08:05 principles of schools to see this policy says that nobody will
1:08:09 be able to utilize drones unless it’s approved by the
1:08:13 superintendent.
1:08:15 I think that would be for Dr. Schiller to determine his if he
1:08:37 has a designee in that process.
1:08:40 I would be concerned because there’s a lot of language with FAA
1:08:45 guidelines, and you know there are some, some real nuances to
1:08:50 the laws on drone footage and drone usage.
1:08:54 So, so every school that has a drone.
1:09:05 Yeah.
1:09:11 I’m just offering my knowledge on I’ve been drones for the last
1:09:18 month.
1:09:21 Or they have to be official school function, you can’t be a guy
1:09:36 who allows you to fly.
1:09:37 We have, you know, whatever it is, but it needs to be something
1:09:52 that’s official that that was my take on this.
1:09:52 The issue is, is that we have so many of these having site based
1:10:11 location to make the approval would be great, or maybe the
1:10:12 opportunity is to get into the principal principal and you send
1:10:13 it to that individual, all of those, we can work through that
1:10:14 process.
1:10:14 And one of the things I know is that as we start to go towards
1:10:22 this flip of programs and all that other stuff, I think it would
1:10:23 help with that and we’re going to say no, that we should have
1:10:24 that process.
1:10:25 The other thing is that the athletic directors, so beyond just
1:10:29 the games that we do, drones are used now for a wide variety of
1:10:34 action videos and stuff like that students are using.
1:10:37 So I just want to make sure that they were not going to inhibit
1:10:42 the use of drones for other productions from videos for
1:10:47 athletics, pre games and stuff like that.
1:10:51 You guys foresee this policy, holding back. I don’t I think the
1:10:55 current legislation is holding back a lot of a lot of those flexibilities,
1:11:01 I really, as you mentioned drone activities, be looked at all
1:11:06 over the world.
1:11:06 I really would feel strongly that they work with our district
1:11:10 STEM coordinator, just to make sure they’re following FAA
1:11:14 guidelines and those federal because you’re following state and
1:11:18 federal law when it comes to flying drones.
1:11:22 And I think it’d be very easy for them to just stay in touch
1:11:25 with our STEM coordinator. If Dr. Schiller proves that as his
1:11:29 designee, that would be my recommendation, because a lot like we
1:11:33 saw here the law just changed.
1:11:36 And so really having a handle on all the requirements is very
1:11:41 technical.
1:11:42 [ Inaudible ]
1:11:52 Yeah, or the athletic director could go straight to the
1:11:54 coordinator as far as I’m concerned.
1:11:56 [ Inaudible ]
1:12:24 They manage the actual game. They don’t manage all the other
1:12:28 portions of the game, which would allow them to do these videos
1:12:31 before and after.
1:12:33 I know that this is a big deal that many people may not know is
1:12:36 that they fly drones at the games for footage, and I don’t want
1:12:40 to shut it down because we’re because of this.
1:12:44 [ Inaudible ]
1:13:07 And then the last piece that I have for this is if somebody else
1:13:10 brings their drone and they want to try to use it for their
1:13:13 sports program at our facility, we are going to say no, right?
1:13:18 Oh, yes.
1:13:19 So the sports team comes in from Platte, Florida. Does it happen?
1:13:22 And they start running the drone. We have them running the drone
1:13:25 over the top. Do we have the principal ask the law enforcement
1:13:29 to tell them to take it down? And then if they refuse to take it
1:13:32 down, we can compensate it, right?
1:13:35 I don’t know about compensating, but we can take care of them,
1:13:38 bring it down.
1:13:40 That’s all I needed from my end. So anybody else got any
1:13:43 questions?
1:13:44 [ Inaudible ]
1:14:08 And if we start to allow individual schools to start making
1:14:11 these decisions with the laws confusing as it is being reworked
1:14:15 right now, we’re going to have tons of human error and the
1:14:19 potential for penalties, significant penalties.
1:14:23 [ Inaudible ]
1:14:40 Anybody else? Questions? Okay.
1:14:44 [ Inaudible ]
1:15:26 Are there any questions? Any discussion?
1:15:30 [ Inaudible ]
1:18:20 Are there any others? Any other discussion? There would be none.
1:18:44 I think public comments is good. The next one is the meeting
1:18:44 agenda item process discussion. If you guys can turn to inside
1:18:45 of your board materials, there’s a page that’s inside there.
1:18:45 [ Inaudible ]
1:19:39 If you look here, basically whether it’s a board workshop or a
1:19:42 board meeting, you would click where it says complete this form.
1:19:46 And what you would do is have the ability to fill out an
1:19:48 amendment to a policy or just a discussion item that you want to
1:19:52 bring up. Right? So if it’s in the board workshop, you would be
1:19:56 able to drop down the menu and you would put in there, this is
1:19:59 the policy I would like to go, like Ms. Campbell had said
1:20:02 earlier, this is section 3.2, whatever, and then just write in
1:20:06 there exactly what is the topic that you wish to discuss.
1:20:08 And give direction and hit submit. That way staff will get this
1:20:12 and they’ll be able to review it. That process would really help
1:20:16 not only organize us, but then also give more staff the
1:20:19 opportunity to understand what direction we’re trying to go on
1:20:22 some of these items. It also goes for policies discussion and
1:20:27 then on the board meeting you can do policies, topics or
1:20:29 discussion. Right? So it’s basically an idea of just kind of
1:20:33 organizing ourselves so that we can help staff and actually
1:20:36 streamline the process.
1:20:37 So what happens is, is that 14 days out we get our agendas.
1:20:44 Right? Seven days out it goes to the public. And the only thing
1:20:46 is that by Friday at noon, prior to the Tuesday, we would try to
1:20:49 get some entries in. Now the issue we may run into is that
1:20:52 lately some of these agenda items are locked in and stuff. We
1:20:56 need to start curving back from that and start putting them on
1:21:00 the agenda in that seven day period so that we want to amend
1:21:04 them and we can do so. Does that make sense?
1:21:06 Yeah, it’s kind of creating a more streamlined process so that
1:21:10 the direction from the board is more organized. I think it’s
1:21:12 good. And I think that many of the other staff members have
1:21:16 heard very positive things coming back from it because it’s
1:21:19 something that’s needed. So I just wanted to kind of offer that.
1:21:24 The idea is to try to get it Friday. And then what would happen
1:21:27 is we would not see each other’s all been mentioned that because
1:21:32 of sunshine, it’s not that it’s in the right direction.
1:21:35 As we’re doing this in the beginning, we may want to just all
1:21:37 get it the day of the meeting, like all of my review and
1:21:40 everybody else’s package because Paul’s concerned that because
1:21:43 of how many of them we may be sending because of the policies,
1:21:46 somebody may comment to somebody else in great sunshine. So it’s
1:21:50 better to lock it down and only make all of them available to us
1:21:53 the day of the meeting. And then prior to the staff would be
1:21:56 able to get it when we submit. Does that make sense?
1:22:00 So you won’t be able to do this marching, or not in a way that
1:22:04 would not be in others.
1:22:06 We use this just to go to staff so they can be prepared to make
1:22:10 the meeting, but you guys wouldn’t get it until the meeting.
1:22:15 So the idea is, is that it is illegal to where we can all view.
1:22:30 But in the first couple of meetings, because we’re doing this
1:22:34 for the first time, all the idea would be let’s send it, and
1:22:36 then not review it until the day of. And then that way there’s
1:22:36 no opportunities to kind of make a hiccup, and then we can
1:22:36 expand it to the rest of that project.
1:22:37 » So just making sure that I understand what you’re saying here.
1:22:47 So what we’re talking about today is that we want to add
1:22:47 something to the agenda, whether it’s discussion or whatever, we’re
1:22:49 going to ask for us to do that seven days advance.
1:22:50 But this Friday before is, if we have questions, what’s the
1:22:52 questions we’ve asked? We submit the questions so that after we
1:22:55 get an answer, we still ask them in the meetings that they’re
1:22:59 right, and they can have all the data.
1:23:02 » And to be honest with everybody, it’s going to take, if we
1:23:06 can all try to use it as a practice for New York, I’m sorry,
1:23:11 February 21st, and then we’ll just kind of practice it.
1:23:16 It won’t be in, hey, this is the only thing, but as we move, I
1:23:19 would like to try to get near the end of March to where we’re
1:23:22 using it officially as our thing, because I have a feeling that
1:23:24 we’re, like everybody else, we use it for about 70%, and then we’ll
1:23:27 improve it until we get to about 100%.
1:23:30 And we’ll do a better job of explaining it all, but I actually
1:23:34 did one. I started doing some tests, and it looked pretty clean,
1:23:38 and there’s an actual form that we would also be able to use.
1:23:42 So there’s a couple of options, but I think it’s a good
1:23:44 direction for us to start going in. If the staff can understand,
1:23:47 then we don’t have Dr. Sullivan coming up here trying to explain
1:23:50 the processes and stuff like that, and it’s actually fair to
1:23:53 them, because I don’t think we’ve been, I would be the first
1:23:56 person, I don’t think I have been fair to staff.
1:23:59 Through the years, because I have always just kind of thought
1:24:01 things that came out of my mind, and you guys may not have
1:24:04 understood it, and then I get angry because I’m like, I don’t
1:24:06 think I understand.
1:24:08 So this gives us that opportunity. So if anybody has any
1:24:10 questions, I think it’s more of a practice. Thank you.
1:24:13 No, I love it. I think it’s great.
1:24:15 Listen, I have $4. I am the lowest man on the total pool. Any
1:24:21 time I’m home, I always try to admit to it. Anybody else have
1:24:28 anything? Okay. If you guys can, try to use this, I’ll send that
1:24:30 per second email. Try to utilize this for the February 21st
1:24:34 email.
1:24:35 We’ll figure that out. And let me just say this. This is not a
1:24:45 Matt Susan idea, just so everybody knows. Tami and I are working
1:24:48 on this together. I will tell you that Tami is amazing.
1:24:51 I just kind of heard this together.
1:24:52 I’ll say something and then Tammy’s like, yeah,
1:24:54 and then she makes it happen.
1:24:55 In this regard, a lot of this came from Tammy saying,
1:24:58 hey, we need to come up with a process
1:25:00 and we owe this to you, Tammy, so thank you so much.
1:25:03 I really appreciate your work.
1:25:05 All right, so with that, we move to Board Policy 5136.
1:25:11 Dr. Shiller’s been very anxious down there.
1:25:15 Dr. Shiller, can you please address the board?
1:25:17 - Good afternoon, board members,
1:25:18 members of the public and staff.
1:25:21 Thank you for going through so much in such a record time.
1:25:25 You might hit your 4.30 deadline.
1:25:27 - Oh my gosh, I know, we’re doing good.
1:25:29 - We’re trying, we’re trying.
1:25:31 5136, Wireless Communication Devices,
1:25:35 begins our full review of the critical area
1:25:39 affecting student discipline
1:25:41 and many of the things that we’ve been talking about.
1:25:44 This is the first of a number that we’ll be presenting to you
1:25:48 over the next several board meetings
1:25:50 of student conduct and whatever.
1:25:52 And this is one that was kind of hanging fire
1:25:55 for a little while.
1:25:56 It originates in the Division of ESE
1:26:01 and Student Support Services
1:26:03 and Dr. Webley now has replaced Chris Moore
1:26:06 and so that’s why she’s there,
1:26:08 but it has involved everyone,
1:26:10 our Interim Deputy Superintendent, Anna Maria Cody,
1:26:13 Ms. Klein, Dr. Sullivan,
1:26:16 and we’ve also had a lot of input
1:26:18 that I’ve had from Mr. Wilson and Major Neal and Paul.
1:26:24 So what I’ve tried to capture for you here
1:26:27 is a consideration of a working draft
1:26:30 for the board to respond to
1:26:32 and to add its edits or questions or issues.
1:26:37 If you recall, there are a couple things
1:26:40 I would like to highlight and turn it back to you,
1:26:42 Mr. Susan, if possible.
1:26:45 If you look at number five,
1:26:48 the way it works at this point,
1:26:50 and this is one discussion point,
1:26:52 is that the entire administration of the policy
1:26:58 and administrative regs devolves to the site principal
1:27:02 and its leadership team,
1:27:06 which in turn, they may devolve to basically the teachers.
1:27:14 And the point being is that we have great diversity,
1:27:18 different kinds of schools and situations,
1:27:21 and we believe in,
1:27:22 I believe that’s the direction of the board,
1:27:24 to allow as maximum flexibility from school to school.
1:27:28 Obviously, what we hear of inconsistencies
1:27:31 is because there’s inconsistent application
1:27:34 from one school to the other.
1:27:36 And that’s perfectly fine,
1:27:38 but that’s just a policy point
1:27:39 that if the board wishes to reconsider that.
1:27:42 Second policy point would be that
1:27:47 we will find, and we have found,
1:27:49 that because it devolves from principal to the teachers,
1:27:55 you can have different teachers
1:27:57 offering up time for students
1:27:59 to make use of their wireless device.
1:28:02 So you can have and will be reported inconsistencies.
1:28:07 Another part that I’d like to bring to your attention
1:28:10 is that there was some consideration
1:28:12 of the fact that there are incidents
1:28:15 that are being recorded and then posted online.
1:28:19 And if you recall,
1:28:22 there was a scan from Polk County’s policy,
1:28:26 and we found in there where that such incidents,
1:28:30 and we wanna talk about that word incidents
1:28:32 because there’s a bit of a clarification
1:28:34 that staff members brought up this morning,
1:28:37 particularly led by Stephanie Sullivan,
1:28:40 is that this addresses fights
1:28:43 or those physical altercations being recorded,
1:28:46 of which there’s value,
1:28:48 but it’s the posting online
1:28:50 for which is not necessarily of value.
1:28:53 And we wonder, one thing for your consideration
1:28:56 would be to what extent you want that language
1:29:00 or you wanna broaden a little bit
1:29:02 about from not just fights, but to incidents,
1:29:05 including fights.
1:29:08 So let me stop here and ask if staff
1:29:12 have any other clarifications.
1:29:16 If not, let me just share a bit of data
1:29:19 that was given to me a while ago.
1:29:22 Just so you know, to date school year,
1:29:26 there have been 233,
1:29:31 what was called major considerations
1:29:33 of misuse electronic device misuse.
1:29:38 Percentage wise, it is quite low.
1:29:41 In fact, almost all of them are high school
1:29:44 and middle school.
1:29:47 I count maybe two or three elementary or major.
1:29:50 And I think we have to put this in perspective.
1:29:53 And resulting in 66 suspensions
1:29:57 out of school, one to three days,
1:29:59 45 conferences, okay,
1:30:04 with students, 32 with parents,
1:30:07 administrative detention, one day, 15 suspension,
1:30:11 in school, 15, okay, one day,
1:30:15 reteaching student expectations,
1:30:20 very appropriate if you wanna correct the behavior,
1:30:23 phone conferences, reflective assignment,
1:30:28 increased supervision, short term bus suspension,
1:30:33 three stay away contracts.
1:30:37 That’s a good piece of data to guide our thinking.
1:30:40 Whereas, there are minor, 2,392 reported.
1:30:48 Some high school, majority,
1:30:52 well, I won’t characterize what the majority are.
1:30:55 But put that in perspective,
1:30:57 resulting in 771 detentions for one day.
1:31:03 Conferences with students, 476.
1:31:05 (mumbles)
1:31:09 I’m sorry?
1:31:11 - Minor incidents.
1:31:12 - 2,392, Ms. Jenkins, I’m sorry if I was not clear.
1:31:15 - No, that’s okay, I didn’t hear what it was.
1:31:17 - Right, 2392, minor.
1:31:20 And I can go through the litany here,
1:31:23 but the conference is 476,
1:31:26 teach, reteach student expectations,
1:31:29 somewhere in the neighborhood of 252,
1:31:31 in school suspension, 244, confiscation of items, 125.
1:31:36 Conferences with parents, not a lot of heavy duty things here
1:31:45 but they are reported.
1:31:47 So, we’ve gotten the data.
1:31:48 I wanna thank staff very, very much for that.
1:31:51 Just to put in context.
1:31:52 So, how about if I leave that at this point
1:31:55 and turn it back to the board?
1:31:56 Thank you.
1:31:58 - Does anybody wish to speak to this policy?
1:32:03 - Yeah, I think it’s important to the role, I’m sorry.
1:32:07 - No, it’s okay.
1:32:07 - I think it’s important going forward,
1:32:10 we’re talking about the discipline of student
1:32:14 for misusing wireless communication device to the core.
1:32:17 Number one, you’re not supposed to be reporting
1:32:19 the user going to your age, we’ve got it.
1:32:23 I think it’s important to make it clear
1:32:24 as an expectation to our students
1:32:27 that when we use it to intimidate, harass, bully,
1:32:30 and post-counsel media that that’s also a consequence.
1:32:33 I don’t think in practice we need to do that.
1:32:35 I believe that when we read this, that comes from that.
1:32:40 There’s a addition in here on number six.
1:32:46 I don’t know how to put it into that.
1:32:48 - I’m saying you’re–
1:32:49 - It’s May 15th, I’m sorry, I don’t think it’s on.
1:32:54 Yeah.
1:32:58 The use of a wireless communication device
1:32:59 for non-educational purposes,
1:33:00 including but not limited to recording staff
1:33:02 and students without permission or knowledge
1:33:04 or recording fights is strictly prohibited.
1:33:09 Sal and Nicholas would argue that statement,
1:33:11 but the reason I’m gonna argue it
1:33:13 is I think we need to make it clear
1:33:14 of the intent of the posting on social media
1:33:18 because to be perfectly fair and honest,
1:33:22 it is our society’s reaction
1:33:23 to without a cell phone incident is happening,
1:33:25 not necessarily for a negative reason,
1:33:27 but it has benefited our staff
1:33:29 to resolve some really terrible issues
1:33:31 that have happened to some of our students.
1:33:32 I can speak as one that I know of
1:33:34 that was a harassment of a student in a bathroom.
1:33:38 That said, students maybe would not have been able
1:33:40 to communicate what was happening,
1:33:42 but up here was reporting it not to harass the student,
1:33:45 but brought it forward to a teacher or a staff member,
1:33:47 and if someone was taking this too literally,
1:33:50 that student would get in trouble for doing the right thing.
1:33:53 So we need to be a little bit careful
1:33:54 about the language we use here.
1:33:56 I think it’s really important
1:33:57 that wherever we do speak like that,
1:33:58 that we add the caveat of for the intent to bully, harass,
1:34:02 or whatever the right one could be,
1:34:04 or post on social media
1:34:06 because there’s no benefit to posting into social media
1:34:09 other than to spread it unnecessarily.
1:34:13 So, and that kind of goes around the rest of this policy.
1:34:15 It happens a couple of different times.
1:34:17 I’m not gonna highlight all of them,
1:34:18 but I just want us all to be aware of that
1:34:21 ‘cause our first instinct is to say,
1:34:23 don’t report that that’s so bad.
1:34:25 Again, we literally just had it just a couple days ago
1:34:27 and then probably today.
1:34:31 - I think a couple of us probably did say money.
1:34:34 Ms. Pauline, we had a discussion beforehand about this.
1:34:36 Do you want to weigh in
1:34:37 or do you want to have any stuff to tell them in a minute?
1:34:40 Like, I like watching them come all the way from the back.
1:34:42 - You know, she loves to come up here and talk, I guess.
1:34:45 She likes to be the voice of BPS.
1:34:48 - Right, right.
1:34:49 (audience laughing)
1:34:54 - I think many of your sentences are agreeable.
1:34:58 And I think that Dr. Sullivan had some ideas on this.
1:35:01 I think letting them get to it would be appropriate.
1:35:05 Why are you taking so long to walk up to me?
1:35:07 - She’s thinking.
1:35:08 (audience laughing)
1:35:15 - I agree with whatever everybody just said.
1:35:18 I think when we write the language
1:35:20 and the recommended thing that we’re putting in
1:35:23 that when students are posting it online,
1:35:27 I think is really the key.
1:35:28 I think that was the recommendation we heard
1:35:31 from our law enforcement representatives
1:35:33 and I think it’s really good feedback.
1:35:35 And so my recommendation was to not necessarily say
1:35:40 if they record something, there’s automatic things
1:35:42 that they’ve recorded and posted online,
1:35:45 that that is a different situation.
1:35:48 Just as a reminder, everything related to cyber bullying
1:35:51 is in our bullying policy as well.
1:35:53 We have cyber bullying discipline.
1:35:55 So oftentimes we may charge a student
1:36:00 with an incident of cell phone misuse,
1:36:02 but it’s really the other related incidents
1:36:06 that exacerbate the outcome.
1:36:07 So for example, if a student has their phone confiscated,
1:36:11 it might be a misuse and the action may be confiscated,
1:36:15 but then that student perhaps exhibits
1:36:17 more difficult behavior and it’s actually the other offense
1:36:21 that’s getting them the more difficult outcome,
1:36:23 willful disobedience, out of the signed area, cyber bullying.
1:36:27 So there are often multiple incidents
1:36:33 if the student is not cooperative from the beginning.
1:36:35 When the student’s cooperative,
1:36:36 it may end at the electronic misuse.
1:36:40 After that, it may be wrapped up in willful disobedience
1:36:45 and other type of higher level incidents.
1:36:48 So if a student’s exhibiting those other behaviors,
1:36:52 it doesn’t end just at electronic misuse.
1:36:55 It goes into potentially cyber bullying, cyber issues,
1:36:59 and like I said, probably most often
1:37:01 willful disobedience in my space
1:37:04 on how the student handled the correction.
1:37:09 I don’t know if that makes sense.
1:37:10 - It’s perfect.
1:37:11 So when you had that conversation wrapped around
1:37:14 the term fighting and some of those other things,
1:37:15 you guys are gonna lose the fact that you’re back with it.
1:37:18 - I think incidents is a better choice of words
1:37:20 just because kids come up with things
1:37:24 that are problematic for them to video and post
1:37:28 that are things we have not considered.
1:37:31 So it’s just my recommendation to land at
1:37:34 something like related to the word incidents instead
1:37:38 to give more flexibility as new TikTok challenges
1:37:42 and new things like that happen.
1:37:46 Doing that and so those are just some preliminary discussions
1:37:50 we had to try to support Dr. Webley in some draft language.
1:37:54 - Thank you, yes.
1:37:55 Okay, so I understand what you’re saying, Ms. Jenkins,
1:37:57 when you’re referring, my mic is not on there.
1:38:00 What you’re saying when you’re referring to
1:38:04 sometimes the phone being useful
1:38:06 in those very rare instances,
1:38:08 but here’s what I will say to that.
1:38:11 Where are we as society when the first thing
1:38:14 a kid thinks to do when two kids are pounding on each other
1:38:17 is to pull a phone out and start recording?
1:38:19 So for me, I am 100% in favor of no cell phone.
1:38:25 Nothing good comes there.
1:38:27 Our kids need to be able to speak to each other,
1:38:28 look each other in the eye.
1:38:30 They are struggling with that right now
1:38:31 because they’re so inundated with that technology.
1:38:34 So for me, I understand what you’re saying,
1:38:36 but I just have to go back to
1:38:39 I don’t think that cell phones are appropriate
1:38:40 during instruction time, period.
1:38:43 If you need to have them,
1:38:44 if you need to have them on silent mode or whatever
1:38:46 because of getting home, getting to and from school,
1:38:49 and you need to make sure you’re checking with parents,
1:38:51 so be it.
1:38:52 But I just feel like it’s a distraction.
1:38:55 Kids know when it’s going off and it’s in their backpack,
1:38:58 even if it’s on silent mode,
1:38:59 they see that little light flash
1:39:00 or they see the little blinking whatever.
1:39:03 And so for me, I’m just saying no cell phones.
1:39:05 That’s what I would like to see our district do,
1:39:06 but I don’t know where everyone else is.
1:39:13 (muffled speaking)
1:39:21 - I think no cell phones during instruction time,
1:39:23 meaning when they’re on our school campus, no cell phones.
1:39:27 Because again, a lot of times things are happening.
1:39:29 I got, you know, there’s bus fights.
1:39:31 There’s fights that are happening
1:39:33 in between classes changing.
1:39:34 Granted, they’re not being instructed at that time,
1:39:36 but they still are on our campus.
1:39:38 And so to me, I would love to see our kids’ first response
1:39:42 not be to pull a phone out and start recording,
1:39:44 but to actually step in and try to help in this situation
1:39:46 and diffuse it.
1:39:47 And so I think we have to do a better job
1:39:49 at teaching them those skills.
1:39:51 And if we keep on allowing for cell phones and distractions,
1:39:54 then we’re never gonna get there.
1:39:57 (muffled speaking)
1:40:06 - In that same result, I requested those that links
1:40:10 to those videos from the cameras
1:40:12 and it had all of that on them already.
1:40:14 So in many cases, having somebody record it
1:40:17 in the event that we can use it for something,
1:40:19 we’re already, we have a lot of digitalized
1:40:21 and a lot of places to record it also.
1:40:23 So thank you for your comments, Ms. Campbell.
1:40:25 You have something to say.
1:40:26 - Yeah, I’m not in complete agreement with Ms. Wright.
1:40:31 I think we need to carefully use this
1:40:32 because when you say structural time,
1:40:33 my point goes to you’re in class
1:40:36 and structural time is not as you’d hear.
1:40:37 It’s not much time, it’s not a forecast.
1:40:39 So if you’re saying during the school day,
1:40:41 I think we would define it as during the school day.
1:40:45 I do know that we have in expulsion hearings
1:40:48 and other major discipline issues
1:40:52 have the advantage of, we have cameras in a lot of places,
1:40:54 we have the advantage of students who turned over footage.
1:40:59 And I agree with you, I actually had a conversation
1:41:01 with my own child about, you know,
1:41:04 there was a fight and the person in state was running,
1:41:06 oh, what are you doing?
1:41:07 You know, we gang around fights and people can’t get
1:41:10 to there to break them up.
1:41:12 But again, it’s a pretty big expectation
1:41:14 to tell a network student to be the one to step in.
1:41:19 Sometimes we’re very big in this situation.
1:41:22 And I think that we need to,
1:41:27 I know this is a hard one because I agree with the thing.
1:41:31 I want people to have conversations
1:41:32 and they need to, you know, sell some of their distractions
1:41:34 but at the same time sell phones are also a tool.
1:41:37 And the tool can be used in a good way and a bad way.
1:41:40 I think we have the opportunity in our policy
1:41:42 to make a careful elimination of when it can be used
1:41:46 in a good way and it can be used in a bad way.
1:41:50 So, you know, and again, because of, you know,
1:41:55 when they’re in those times that the way the policy
1:41:58 is worded as is, on number five,
1:42:03 an authorized group of site principals,
1:42:05 site leadership teams, those are those lunch breaks
1:42:07 before school, after school, energy classes.
1:42:11 During, you know, after school activity,
1:42:13 that the site principals, site leadership can decide.
1:42:18 I’m fine with that because that doesn’t,
1:42:22 that doesn’t include instructional time.
1:42:25 And number six talks about instructional time.
1:42:28 It’s been specific, but I think we can kind of get away
1:42:30 from some of that on number six
1:42:32 because now we are one-to-one for the most part,
1:42:35 even though we did over the last couple of years.
1:42:37 We have kids trying to Google Classroom on the phone,
1:42:39 which is very difficult.
1:42:42 But now we’re a little bit more able to get away from that
1:42:47 because we have one-to-one technology in our classrooms.
1:42:50 I do think we need to make that language change
1:42:53 about incidents and about making distinctions,
1:42:58 between the consequence for recording it
1:43:04 and the consequence for using it,
1:43:06 and appropriately, by testing it online.
1:43:11 And I don’t see, you know, even in the world,
1:43:17 law enforcement frequently uses recordings of those kinds
1:43:21 to help with their investigations.
1:43:25 So, you know, to get every angle to get, you know,
1:43:27 so that we can get down to the bottom of it,
1:43:29 and I just don’t think we have enough,
1:43:31 we can put it on camera in enough places.
1:43:35 You know, I don’t want to teach our kids,
1:43:37 “Hey, you see something happening?
1:43:39 “I’m gonna record.”
1:43:40 We don’t do it, but sometimes it has been useful,
1:43:42 and to Ms. Jenkins’ point, I’ve been waiting for us
1:43:46 to find out, because we hadn’t been sent up very long ago,
1:43:49 I think it was last school year,
1:43:50 maybe it was being in this school year,
1:43:52 where a child attacked another child
1:43:54 that was in middle school,
1:43:56 and I said something to our children,
1:43:58 “What’s happening to the kids who did the recording?”
1:44:01 Because it’s like, they knew that it was happening, right?
1:44:03 That they can record.
1:44:04 It was just like a dismissal time, I think.
1:44:07 And our school made the point that that student
1:44:08 actually turned immediately the recording over,
1:44:10 and it was very helpful in the investigation.
1:44:13 And so, maybe didn’t know exactly what was gonna happen.
1:44:16 So, under what we might, if we make this change,
1:44:21 then we’re actually going to punish the child
1:44:22 in terms of who would have to punish the child
1:44:25 in terms of recording over.
1:44:26 So, I don’t know that there’s a perfect solution to this,
1:44:29 but I’m not ready to completely cut all of that out.
1:44:36 As far as the opening, I don’t want to jump
1:44:39 and head to the next thing, but I did.
1:44:40 I’m number 14, so we can talk about it briefly.
1:44:43 There’s that red word, “fighting” in there,
1:44:45 and just grammatically, I’m not sure exactly
1:44:47 what the point of putting that in there was,
1:44:49 because it says, “Students may not use
1:44:53 “the suffixes anyway that might recently create in the mind
1:44:55 “of another person an impression of being threatened,
1:44:58 “fighting, humiliated.”
1:45:00 Can we take that?
1:45:03 - I think Dr. Sullivan said she would be worse than that.
1:45:06 - Okay, okay.
1:45:08 That was a weird thing for me.
1:45:10 And then, just one other thing,
1:45:12 ‘cause I was looking at the Polk County policy,
1:45:14 and they mentioned, oh, on page 20,
1:45:19 and I don’t know if it’s on page 20 or there are page 21.
1:45:23 Okay, on page 20 of the packet,
1:45:25 so if you’re looking online,
1:45:27 it’s the first page of the Polk related Polk County garbage.
1:45:33 They have, there’s somebody who’s circled
1:45:34 and starting with, underneath that it says,
1:45:37 “No students may have, in the general possession,
1:45:39 “any wireless communication device
1:45:40 “or any other items that are coursed
1:45:42 “or transmit data during any standardized testing
1:45:45 “or EOC,” and when I read that,
1:45:47 I immediately thought of these things, smartwatches.
1:45:51 And I know when you go into SAT, ACT,
1:45:54 you can’t have your phone, you can’t,
1:45:56 you all can have a smartwatch.
1:45:57 Somebody can be texting you answers or whatever.
1:46:01 So, do we need to have, during those times,
1:46:03 I’m not saying we take away kids’ smartwatches
1:46:05 because it’s also, like, this is also my watch.
1:46:08 So, and for some, it’s their health monitor
1:46:11 and things like that.
1:46:12 But do we need to have specific language somewhere,
1:46:15 or do we have something else that takes care of it
1:46:16 so that during those standardized testing times,
1:46:18 we say, even the watch, just like ACT
1:46:23 and SAT administration, they go this way?
1:46:26 Do we have that already?
1:46:27 - As a former testing coordinator,
1:46:31 that’s included in all the scripts
1:46:33 and the language when we talk.
1:46:35 - Okay. - Yeah.
1:46:36 - So we don’t necessarily have a traditional language there.
1:46:40 But we don’t have anything in the policy at all
1:46:42 about smartwatches, it’s wireless communication.
1:46:47 - Wireless, WCD is anything.
1:46:49 - Wireless communication device.
1:46:49 - It’s all that. - Yeah.
1:46:51 - Okay. - Yeah.
1:46:52 - It’s just, we’ve always been talking about it
1:46:53 as a small company.
1:46:54 - Well, okay, so then I would say,
1:46:56 do we need to make adjustments?
1:46:58 Because when it’s also the last time
1:47:00 everybody didn’t have a smartwatch,
1:47:01 and I don’t think we’re about to say
1:47:03 you can’t have your smartwatch on your wrist
1:47:05 when you’re doing a classroom.
1:47:08 I mean– - Well.
1:47:10 (muffled speaking)
1:47:14 - Well, I guess, I’ll speak on the phone,
1:47:17 so that everyone knows.
1:47:19 Oh, well, it seemed like, I guessed that one right.
1:47:21 You were good.
1:47:24 Since maybe I’m the last one that has been
1:47:26 in a classroom around kids,
1:47:29 I would love the world that we could say
1:47:32 zero phones or cellular devices on a campus.
1:47:37 That to me would be like when we talk
1:47:39 about the dress code that we immediately go to uniforms.
1:47:45 I don’t know if that’s possible.
1:47:47 I think that is, instructional time to me
1:47:49 still is classroom when you’re teaching,
1:47:51 and I still think it’s a classroom decision,
1:47:56 and it shouldn’t, I don’t wanna say
1:47:58 it shouldn’t be that difficult,
1:47:59 but that teacher should have the backup.
1:48:02 I mean, we’re recording this,
1:48:03 so teachers, please do what you need to do there.
1:48:05 We expect the backup from deans
1:48:08 and building principles that you’re allowed
1:48:11 to control your classroom with this policy,
1:48:14 saying nothing is out during that time,
1:48:17 including seven years ago,
1:48:21 I’ve had kids take off their watch,
1:48:22 ‘cause you obviously lost that ability to have that.
1:48:26 You put your phone away,
1:48:26 and now you’re looking at your watch when I’m teaching.
1:48:29 We should still be able to do that.
1:48:34 The posting to social media after recording
1:48:39 absolutely should be an issue,
1:48:41 but I don’t wanna limit it to social media,
1:48:44 because having lunchroom duty,
1:48:47 many of that, much of the damage can be done
1:48:50 that you see 15 kids around a kid showing it.
1:48:53 So if they disperse that video in a harmful, hateful way,
1:48:58 it’s the same as posting it,
1:48:59 and we should be able to grab that kid,
1:49:01 and I don’t want him to say,
1:49:03 or somebody else to be able to say,
1:49:05 well, he didn’t post it.
1:49:08 So I don’t know where that discussion wants to come in,
1:49:10 but that’s harmful and hateful,
1:49:11 and that happens in classrooms,
1:49:14 but I do wanna return or continue principles
1:49:19 being able to control their building.
1:49:22 I believe it should be heavily emphasized
1:49:25 that if teachers don’t already do that,
1:49:28 to take back their classrooms
1:49:31 and have no phones out while there’s instruction time
1:49:35 going on, how do we get that across?
1:49:37 How did we miss it?
1:49:39 But currently, it’s out of control across the board.
1:49:47 We’ve been in classrooms now for a couple months,
1:49:51 and we still have kids,
1:49:53 some of us still have kids in the district,
1:49:54 and it is from perfectly ran in a classroom
1:50:01 to absolute chaos in a classroom on cell phones.
1:50:04 So I don’t think putting it in a policy
1:50:06 is the end-all end-all answer.
1:50:08 We need to figure out how we get to teachers and staff
1:50:12 and say, this is just the way we have to do it.
1:50:16 - Thank you, Mr. Churn.
1:50:18 I would like to weigh in before we go to the second.
1:50:22 I have a, I’m trying to keep my three minutes here.
1:50:26 Currently, let’s face the culture of our parents,
1:50:28 let’s face the culture of our schools,
1:50:31 and what we have is if you sit down and you watch
1:50:34 and eat your lunch, eat your dinner in a restaurant,
1:50:37 all you see is the parents
1:50:38 are not talking to their kids anymore.
1:50:39 They’re all on phones, right?
1:50:42 We go to our schools.
1:50:43 Kids in the common areas are not engaging with each other.
1:50:46 They’re talking on their phones.
1:50:48 We go, it has become such a pandemic,
1:50:52 and now research paper after research paper comes out.
1:50:56 Let me explain this one to you.
1:50:58 This one came out from the American Academy
1:51:00 of Pediatrics discouraging, saying that obesity,
1:51:04 irregular sleep, behavioral problems,
1:51:06 impaired academic performance, violence, less time for play.
1:51:10 All of those things are attributed to the cell phone.
1:51:13 Also, you have Harvard University just came out with one
1:51:17 where they talk about the clinic
1:51:18 for interactive media and disorders
1:51:20 treats young people who have excessive gaming,
1:51:22 social media, and other online activities
1:51:24 affecting their health and daily lives at home and school.
1:51:27 We are about to, we are embarking right now
1:51:30 on what is the backend of what we, of the cell phones.
1:51:35 And I have a feeling that if we don’t just say
1:51:38 enough’s enough with the cell phones,
1:51:40 that we’re gonna run into a situation
1:51:42 where we will be doing it a later day.
1:51:44 I currently have a very strict policy inside my household
1:51:47 with my son and my daughters
1:51:49 that they are not allowed to have screen time.
1:51:51 And there’s a lot different interaction,
1:51:54 and you can tell the difference in the kids
1:51:56 that have too much screen time in my kids, but just this.
1:51:59 And I personally believe that if we come forward
1:52:03 with a policy that says, well, you can’t overhear,
1:52:06 you can’t overhear, you can’t overhear,
1:52:08 well, you can record it, but you gotta turn it in,
1:52:11 that we just end up in a place.
1:52:12 Somehow, 20 years ago, we were a darn good school district,
1:52:16 and we were able to do it without cell phones.
1:52:18 And so I feel that a lot of what is going on
1:52:21 and pieces moving forward are only inhibiting
1:52:24 the development of our children.
1:52:26 So I would support Ms. Wright’s idea of just no cell phones.
1:52:30 You can have it on you.
1:52:31 You can have it in case there’s an emergency.
1:52:33 You can have it there inside of your backpack,
1:52:35 but you just don’t bring that.
1:52:37 And I’ll be honest with you,
1:52:38 there’s another thing that happens.
1:52:39 Many teachers will allow, you have multiple teachers,
1:52:44 so I’ve had veteran teachers say,
1:52:46 “We have new teachers that come in,
1:52:47 “and halfway through the end of the year,
1:52:49 “and the end of the day, they’ll just allow their kids
1:52:51 “to play on their cell phones
1:52:52 “because they’re not teaching to the end of the class.”
1:52:55 So what ends up happening is
1:52:57 they then enforce the cell phone policy.
1:52:58 So then what will happen is they’ll say,
1:53:00 “Well, we’re gonna do this educational thing.”
1:53:02 It becomes a literal disaster.
1:53:05 But if you just say no cell phones,
1:53:07 the kids might actually start interacting during lunch.
1:53:10 The kids might actually start interacting ahead of time.
1:53:12 The kids may actually start interacting like you do.
1:53:15 And I’ll be honest with you,
1:53:16 there are literal studies from Harvard
1:53:19 to so many organizations that proved this.
1:53:23 And we’re sitting here on the teeter of saying,
1:53:25 “Well, we’ll go halfway.”
1:53:27 But I feel eventually we’ll go a whole way,
1:53:29 so I’m willing to go there with you now.
1:53:31 That’s all.
1:53:31 So now we can go back through.
1:53:33 I just wanted to remind everybody, it’s 3.41.
1:53:35 We do have a volunteer policy.
1:53:37 So I got mine right at three minutes,
1:53:39 but then I had to explain the portion.
1:53:40 So if we can kind of start getting to the three minutes.
1:53:43 Seems like Ms. Jenkins is ready to go.
1:53:45 Go ahead, Ms. Jenkins.
1:53:47 - Yeah, so I got a lot to say,
1:53:49 and I will say it in three minutes.
1:53:51 We have been spending so much time
1:53:53 on this policy, months on this policy,
1:53:56 and now we’re talking about something
1:53:57 that I got through a public records request.
1:54:01 I don’t understand how it even ended up here.
1:54:04 The beginning of this conversation,
1:54:06 Dr. Schiller made it very clear,
1:54:07 less than 1%, .003%, to be precise,
1:54:12 are major interactions with cell phones.
1:54:14 And if you total it with all of them, it’s only 3%.
1:54:19 The amount of time you’re spending on this policy
1:54:22 is absurd.
1:54:24 We keep speaking in these broad terms
1:54:27 as if we are sitting in the classroom every single day
1:54:29 about how bad it is, how bad it is, how bad it is,
1:54:32 when it’s 3% of the issues.
1:54:36 We should be talking about the ones
1:54:37 that are way more significant.
1:54:40 20 years ago, we didn’t have cell phones.
1:54:42 We were doing fine.
1:54:43 20 years ago, we weren’t thinking
1:54:44 we were gonna go to Mars one day.
1:54:46 I mean, it’s 2023.
1:54:47 You’re not gonna get rid of cell phones.
1:54:49 That’s just an insane thing to talk about.
1:54:51 This policy makes it very clear.
1:54:53 They are not to be used in the classroom
1:54:55 if the teacher says it’s not supposed to be used
1:54:57 in the classroom or the principal decides
1:54:58 it’s not supposed to be used in the classroom.
1:55:00 Our teachers have lost classroom autonomy across the board.
1:55:04 This, how to manage our classroom now
1:55:06 we’re gonna start attacking, that makes no sense to me.
1:55:08 Our teachers, you have a right and you need to feel empowered
1:55:11 if you choose to not have it in your classroom
1:55:13 but your principal says it’s okay
1:55:15 and you don’t feel like they’re backing you up,
1:55:16 then please document it because no one can help you.
1:55:19 Just complain about it, is it gonna make it any better?
1:55:22 You have the right to choose to not have it in your classroom
1:55:24 if you feel so strongly about that.
1:55:26 So please feel empowered to do that.
1:55:29 I understand that there’s studies about technology
1:55:32 using excessive use and how it’s impacting our kids
1:55:34 and we’re all aware of that.
1:55:36 Our entire society is aware of that.
1:55:38 But as a speech language pathologist, I will tell you,
1:55:43 technology is very, very helpful
1:55:45 and useful in our school system.
1:55:47 It has to be used appropriately.
1:55:49 And we should trust our educators
1:55:51 as the professionals that they are
1:55:52 to be able to manage their classrooms
1:55:54 and make smart decisions for their students
1:55:56 that they’re teaching at every single grade level.
1:55:59 They’re professionals, they know what they’re doing.
1:56:02 The real issue here when you talk to a teacher
1:56:04 who complains about cell phone use
1:56:05 is if you ask them, do you write referrals anymore?
1:56:08 No, I don’t write them anymore
1:56:09 ‘cause my administrator doesn’t do anything.
1:56:11 Okay, well, if that’s true, or maybe you feel that way,
1:56:15 maybe you’re not getting the feedback,
1:56:17 but if it’s true, then what did you do about it after that?
1:56:19 Because not writing the referral doesn’t help you either.
1:56:22 So we need to empower our teachers to say,
1:56:24 here in this policy, you have the right to say no,
1:56:27 and please document it
1:56:28 if you feel like you’re not being backed up.
1:56:30 That’s how we solve this problem.
1:56:32 We can’t stop 70,000 kids from using cell phones
1:56:34 and technology, we’re just not going to.
1:56:36 And absolutely, you use it to,
1:56:39 Mr. Trent, I agree with you, I’m glad you caught that.
1:56:42 If you’re distributing it, you’re disseminating it,
1:56:44 you’re sharing it with each other, texting it,
1:56:47 absolutely, all forms of sharing communication
1:56:50 of that incident is a big no-no,
1:56:52 and that absolutely needs to be very,
1:56:53 very, very clear to our students.
1:56:57 - Thank you, Ms. Jenkins.
1:56:58 That was three minutes, that was great.
1:56:59 Ms. Campbell.
1:57:01 - Thank you so much.
1:57:02 Um, so, just really quick, and to your point of,
1:57:07 you know, maybe a teacher who’s, you know,
1:57:10 giving in too soon, right, and they’re not teaching
1:57:13 to the end of the period and allowing kids to be on their phone
1:57:16 that is not allowed in this policy,
1:57:18 because it says clearly, number six,
1:57:21 those kinds of things will be permitted,
1:57:23 technology will be permitted as approved by the teacher
1:57:25 or the principal, it has in, not, it says,
1:57:29 to engage in non-education related communications
1:57:31 is expressly prohibited, so that,
1:57:34 if you’re using it to play food or whatever,
1:57:37 even before, that was, it was never allowed,
1:57:39 it’s not to be allowed.
1:57:40 You know, I would just say, to the point
1:57:44 that there is a carrot way of doing things
1:57:46 and there’s a stick way of doing things,
1:57:48 and I believe that the carrot way is generally better
1:57:52 when you’re trying to get cooperation on something like this
1:57:55 and to, you know, when we have students
1:57:57 who aren’t communicating, listen, I’ve got three teenagers,
1:58:01 so I understand the communication issues,
1:58:04 but I also know that we’re talking about students
1:58:07 sitting around, we can say to self-image,
1:58:09 well, we can’t make them communicate,
1:58:10 but what we can do, and what is already happening,
1:58:13 is we challenge our principals to create better cultures
1:58:18 in their schools, and the principals can get creative
1:58:21 and their staff of how do we engage students,
1:58:24 even in things like before school, after school, lunchtime,
1:58:28 so that they are, so that there is a culture created
1:58:31 where people, where students communicate with each other,
1:58:34 communicate with staff, build those relationships.
1:58:37 That’s the carrot way of getting it done,
1:58:39 rather than the stick, by saying, we’re gonna take away
1:58:43 the ever opportunity you have to be in.
1:58:44 And listen, I am thinking along the lines
1:58:48 of Mr. Trent right now, that is not a battle
1:58:52 that I am willing to fight, because I don’t think,
1:58:56 I think the biggest problem is in the classroom.
1:58:58 I want us to stay focused on what’s happening
1:59:00 in the classroom, and honestly encouraging,
1:59:04 and making it clear to all staff, including the teachers,
1:59:07 no, you’re not allowed, oh, you can have the last,
1:59:10 if you get this done and you can have the last 30 minutes
1:59:12 to listen to music like that, no, sorry.
1:59:15 This says it has to be for instructional purposes.
1:59:18 So let’s hold to that, but I’m not ready
1:59:22 to go to a hall and say, we’re just gonna say,
1:59:25 you can have a new backpack all day,
1:59:26 but you can’t make those.
1:59:28 Certainly, some of our schools do.
1:59:30 I mean, the middle school was generally attacked,
1:59:31 had this confrontation last time.
1:59:33 They need to be allowed to do that.
1:59:35 Am I my child’s middle school?
1:59:37 No, they had it, it disappeared from the time
1:59:41 the bell first bell rang, and it could come out
1:59:43 to the last bell ring, and they need to continue
1:59:45 to have that ring to do that.
1:59:46 And even some of our high schools.
1:59:47 But I wanna continue to have the schools
1:59:49 to have autonomy, the leadership at each school
1:59:51 to make those decisions.
1:59:54 And again, just try to do it in a secure way
1:59:57 rather than a stick way.
2:00:00 - Did you, were you looking at the clock?
2:00:02 - Thanks so much.
2:00:03 - You nailed it right on three minutes, that’s good.
2:00:04 Good job.
2:00:05 All right.
2:00:06 - Okay.
2:00:08 - No, it’s Ms. Wright.
2:00:08 - Okay, all right.
2:00:10 So I appreciate the fact that I’m probably
2:00:13 a little more extreme when it comes to cell phones.
2:00:14 And honestly, that’s my parenting style,
2:00:16 just to make sure that our kids are safe and protected.
2:00:18 And so maybe that’s not where everyone lands on this policy.
2:00:22 Here’s the other thing.
2:00:23 We’re not following the current policy we have.
2:00:25 So I had the opportunity to sit in on the meeting
2:00:28 that Dr. Schiller held with the 1010
2:00:31 and teachers union, a few other people.
2:00:34 And the union provided a cell phone policy,
2:00:37 kind of a phased enforcement,
2:00:39 which I just passed down to everyone for them to see.
2:00:42 And this would be just adhering
2:00:43 to the current policy that’s in place.
2:00:45 So if we were just following what’s currently in place,
2:00:47 no cell phones during instruction time, okay.
2:00:50 And I get it that we have to phase this out
2:00:52 because this is a completely different thing.
2:00:54 We’re coming in now and saying we’re changing everything.
2:00:57 I think our district needs to give guidance
2:01:01 to our staff on what to do,
2:01:03 ‘cause it is all over the place.
2:01:04 It’s different from classroom to classroom.
2:01:07 And that’s very confusing for a kid who’s changing
2:01:09 seven class periods for them to know,
2:01:11 oh, it’s okay here, it’s not okay there.
2:01:13 That’s hard.
2:01:14 I mean, how are they going to be able to do that?
2:01:17 If we’re gonna say, hey, not during instructional time,
2:01:20 and that’s the route we wanna go, fine.
2:01:23 That’s a compromise.
2:01:25 You know where I stand, but I understand and appreciate
2:01:27 that may not be where the majority stands.
2:01:29 But I still think we have to enforce the current policy
2:01:33 and we’re not doing that.
2:01:34 So how do we get there?
2:01:35 How do we get to where we’re enforcing
2:01:37 what we currently have?
2:01:39 I think the cell phone policy enrollment map
2:01:41 is a great starting point that this district
2:01:43 could give out guidance and say, hey,
2:01:46 this is the timeline we’re looking at.
2:01:47 Obviously, these dates are gonna have to be moved
2:01:49 because this was done for a meeting that happened,
2:01:51 I think, at the end of January.
2:01:53 So I think this is a good visual just to give them to say,
2:01:56 hey, this is what we’re looking for.
2:01:58 I will tell you, I walk into classrooms and I see cellphones
2:02:01 and I talk to teachers, what are you doing about that?
2:02:03 It’s not worth the referral.
2:02:04 So while Miss Jenkins brings up the fact
2:02:07 that it’s only 3% of our students,
2:02:08 I would beg to differ that it’s actually
2:02:10 significantly higher.
2:02:11 They’re just not willing to take on that battle.
2:02:13 So they’re just letting it go and that creates a culture
2:02:17 that is just not productive at all.
2:02:19 So that’s my take on cell phone.
2:02:24 - Well, let me, let me, please, please, please.
2:02:28 I know what he’s, I just find myself in between
2:02:33 a lot of this and that’s great.
2:02:35 First off, I wanna make it clear that our community knows,
2:02:40 I mean, we’re with you on that you know
2:02:42 that cell phones is an issue in our schools and a big issue.
2:02:46 I’m not gonna rely on data.
2:02:49 I love data, so I don’t want any emails on that.
2:02:52 But it isn’t minor based on the data.
2:02:57 We, it would be if that’s all we were going on
2:03:00 and that data was realistic, like we said.
2:03:04 We’re in that classroom.
2:03:06 So our community knows better and I just wanted
2:03:09 to make sure on record community, I hear you, I understand.
2:03:13 We’re gonna do whatever we can.
2:03:15 It is an emphasis to get the, get your classrooms back
2:03:19 from bell to bell.
2:03:22 I’m not opposed to not having cell phones on a campus.
2:03:25 That kinda, to me, makes more sense for the new
2:03:30 superintendent’s vision if they agree with this also.
2:03:33 I think it could be something that we bring up
2:03:35 during our interview process because there are campuses
2:03:39 across the country that this has worked.
2:03:41 I’m not against it, I just believe at this point,
2:03:45 let’s get our classrooms back and then let’s move on.
2:03:48 We have lots of other things to talk about
2:03:50 and to be productive on.
2:03:54 So again, vision of the new superintendent.
2:03:57 Just because it’s a not now, doesn’t mean it’s not
2:03:59 gonna be talked about in the future.
2:04:00 I’m sure it’s gonna be talked about in the future.
2:04:04 - Thank you, Mr. Chair.
2:04:07 - Yes, thank you.
2:04:07 I’ve really been anxious to hear this conversation.
2:04:11 We need this clarification so we get a direction.
2:04:14 Yes.
2:04:16 Our biggest problem is the implementation.
2:04:20 But now we have the direction, I believe, from the board
2:04:23 of what is, then I can proceed with the communications.
2:04:27 I couldn’t act first and then come back and say,
2:04:30 oh, by the way.
2:04:32 So if I get the correct direction from the board
2:04:36 as I hear it, then I will then exercise putting into effect
2:04:43 the communications, the meetings with teaching staff
2:04:49 and administration because what came out of that meeting
2:04:52 a week or two ago was the issue of we’re not putting
2:04:57 referrals in ‘cause we’re not getting a response
2:04:59 or we can’t respond administratively unless we get referrals.
2:05:04 We can work that through.
2:05:05 But now that I have direction, as I understand it,
2:05:08 Mr. Chairman, we will come back to you
2:05:11 with some wordsmithing.
2:05:13 But it seems to me that the direction of the board
2:05:15 is such that the current policy where it’s followed
2:05:19 to the schools, who in turn determine from,
2:05:23 through the teacher, classroom by classroom,
2:05:25 the use of it within the framework of the policy.
2:05:28 And so we will go forward and then I will work
2:05:31 with the implementation if that is the direction
2:05:33 of the board.
2:05:34 And that’s where I think we just wanna have clarification
2:05:36 like you said in the previous matter.
2:05:39 Thank you.
2:05:39 - Thank you.
2:05:40 And what I would say to my three minutes here
2:05:42 is that we came together in early December
2:05:46 that we said we wanted the cell phone policy to be enforced.
2:05:50 And we went ahead and gave direction to do that.
2:05:53 And then somehow we’re now back at the same table
2:05:56 saying we want the cell phone policy to be enforced
2:05:58 and we’re amending it to include some of those other things.
2:06:01 From my perspective, Dr. Shiller,
2:06:03 what I would like to see is an immediate move
2:06:05 towards doing this.
2:06:06 ‘Cause I think that we as a school district
2:06:10 have a policy that has not been being enforced.
2:06:13 So although there’s a couple other pieces
2:06:15 that are inside there that we’re amending,
2:06:17 it shouldn’t take months to get this thing out.
2:06:20 This should be something quick.
2:06:21 And I think that you’re on it.
2:06:22 I think that your practice is currently showing
2:06:25 that you’re pretty much pushing pretty fast.
2:06:27 So I look forward to an agenda that moves it very fast
2:06:31 in implementation and gives our teachers
2:06:33 the right to grab their classrooms back.
2:06:36 Does anybody else have any,
2:06:37 try to follow them if they’d like to follow up.
2:06:38 - I know, I know.
2:06:39 - Hang on, hang on.
2:06:40 - As if we get clarity on the recording of the fights
2:06:45 and the sharing, I mean, we should have.
2:06:47 - I think that they got a direction on that.
2:06:49 They kinda reached in the direction of the board or not.
2:06:52 So Dr. Shiller, you’re pretty good.
2:06:54 - Yes, thank you very much for the clarifications, folks.
2:06:57 And we’ll bring that back to you at the next board meeting
2:07:00 and so that, make sure that the language
2:07:02 reflects your thinking.
2:07:05 Thank you.
2:07:07 - Ms. Jenkins, do you want to follow up?
2:07:10 - I need to make this very clear.
2:07:12 You often use the word we as freshmen.
2:07:15 We did not bring this up on December 8th, two months ago,
2:07:18 talking about enforcement.
2:07:20 There was a lot of things said on December 8th
2:07:22 and it wasn’t just that.
2:07:24 And it’s frustrating to me because we have not made changes
2:07:28 to the policy.
2:07:29 What you actually said back on December 8th
2:07:32 is that we needed a new policy.
2:07:34 And we’re not doing that because what we’ve discovered
2:07:36 is there’s nothing wrong with the policy.
2:07:40 And the data is important.
2:07:42 And if you say it’s not accurate,
2:07:44 then where are you placing the blame?
2:07:47 Because it’s not the policy’s fault
2:07:48 if the data is inaccurate.
2:07:50 It’s not the district’s fault if the data is inaccurate.
2:07:53 Whose fault is it?
2:07:55 Sure, it’s always great to readdress expectations,
2:07:58 to inform people, put that out there.
2:08:01 Absolutely.
2:08:02 But we’ve been running a survey for two months
2:08:04 about a policy that we literally have done nothing to.
2:08:07 We’re just gonna make it clear
2:08:08 that we shouldn’t be disseminating a video of something
2:08:10 to other students.
2:08:12 I think we need to be very honest with the public.
2:08:15 It’s not that it wasn’t being enforced.
2:08:17 It absolutely was being enforced.
2:08:20 But clearly there’s a miscommunication
2:08:22 through some of our staff members
2:08:23 of what their autonomy is
2:08:25 and how much control they have over their classrooms.
2:08:27 And for them to communicate to other people
2:08:30 if those things aren’t happening.
2:08:32 And the cell phone policy-based enforcement,
2:08:34 sure, it’s great, there’s nothing wrong with it.
2:08:36 This is literally just re-explaining the expectations
2:08:40 that are already in this policy.
2:08:41 It’s no changes to this policy.
2:08:43 And that needs to be clearly stated.
2:08:44 But what is right here in the beginning?
2:08:47 Teacher will refer students for cell phone violation
2:08:50 to administration.
2:08:51 That is step one.
2:08:53 And I’m not saying that it doesn’t happen
2:08:55 where sometimes they can refer it
2:08:56 and it doesn’t go anywhere.
2:08:57 I get it, trust me.
2:08:58 I worked here, I get it.
2:09:01 But that’s step one because we have so many teachers
2:09:03 who are complaining about this data
2:09:05 and who don’t do that.
2:09:07 Who just don’t do that.
2:09:09 That is the real issue here.
2:09:10 It’s not the policy.
2:09:11 And I think we need to be clear about it
2:09:14 before we speak to people.
2:09:17 - Okay.
2:09:18 - Thank you, Ms. Jenkins.
2:09:20 I would disagree the fact that this policy
2:09:22 is being enforced and I would also refer
2:09:24 to the minutes from that meeting
2:09:26 where we did give direction to this policy.
2:09:28 So that that–
2:09:29 - You said you needed to revise the policy.
2:09:31 Mr. Susan, please stop restating what I say
2:09:34 and/or rebuttal what I say
2:09:35 and acting as if someone cannot respond.
2:09:37 You do not have that authority
2:09:38 that is not an authority as chairman.
2:09:40 You always get the final word.
2:09:42 It is not okay, Mr. Susan.
2:09:43 I am allowed to have a different opinion than you
2:09:45 and you’re allowed to accept it and move on.
2:09:47 - But I don’t have to accept this recommendation.
2:09:50 - It is not a misstatement, Mr. Susan.
2:09:52 It is a report.
2:09:54 Just like everything else.
2:09:55 - So next up we have,
2:09:58 next topic is volunteer qualification guidelines.
2:10:02 - Yes, thank you.
2:10:04 This is another matter of administrative regulation
2:10:08 or guideline that’s been hanging fire somewhat
2:10:11 that we want, we’ve studied this.
2:10:14 I asked Mr. Wilson and Major Neil and Mr. Gibbs
2:10:20 and I whacked through a number of different meetings
2:10:24 and looking at different options
2:10:26 and an attempt to bring to you some clear-cut choices
2:10:30 as to what may solve the major concerns.
2:10:36 If I might summarize,
2:10:37 there’s an inconsistency at work right now
2:10:40 with the current one in place
2:10:43 in that an individual can be employed as a substitute
2:10:51 who has something in one’s background
2:10:57 but cannot similarly work as volunteer.
2:11:03 Go figure.
2:11:05 That’s what we’re trying to get at
2:11:06 as well as a couple of other cleanups.
2:11:09 So let me now please thank you very much for being here,
2:11:12 Mr. Wilson and Major.
2:11:15 Please.
2:11:17 - Good afternoon, Board Chair Susan,
2:11:19 board members and superintendent.
2:11:22 As previously mentioned by Dr. Schiller,
2:11:25 there has been plenty of conversation
2:11:27 in regards to the administrative procedures
2:11:31 for Brevard County Public Schools
2:11:34 volunteer qualification guidelines.
2:11:36 Can you hear me?
2:11:38 And with the direction of Superintendent Schiller,
2:11:43 as he previously mentioned, Major Neil, Attorney Gibbs
2:11:47 and myself, we deliberated about this topic
2:11:51 and created a few options for your review.
2:11:56 As you are aware, as it stands, our volunteer guidelines,
2:12:03 if one is arrested, he or she is not allowed to volunteer.
2:12:10 He or she is automatically ineligible
2:12:12 to be a volunteer participant.
2:12:14 But at the same time, he or she can and will be able
2:12:17 to be employed with the arrest record only.
2:12:24 In your packet, you have four documents.
2:12:29 The first document being the one that we’re currently using.
2:12:33 And this option, again, speaks to automatically disqualifying
2:12:37 a person from volunteering in our schools due to an arrest.
2:12:44 The option number one, which is the employment qualification
2:12:48 guidelines, this was the original option.
2:12:51 A person is ineligible to volunteer in BPS
2:12:55 if the person has been convicted of any felony offense
2:12:59 prohibited under any of the following statutes.
2:13:04 Option number two of the volunteer qualification guidelines,
2:13:08 the option district insecure, this option,
2:13:13 district and school security will consider
2:13:16 and carefully review eligibility if the arrest
2:13:20 is older than 10 years with no subsequent arrest.
2:13:25 Option three of the volunteer qualification guidelines
2:13:29 reads this option states arrest of any offense listed below
2:13:35 other than those highlighted in red will be considered
2:13:40 if arrest was more than five years prior to date
2:13:43 of application.
2:13:45 Any arrest highlighted in red will not be considered.
2:13:51 And if you have any questions, we wanted to get these
2:13:56 options in front of you for your review.
2:13:58 And we, our, Major Neal and I, and with the assistance
2:14:01 of Attorney Gibbs, we’ll be glad to answer any questions
2:14:05 you may have regarding these guidelines.
2:14:09 (mumbles)
2:14:15 - Thank you.
2:14:15 So this has been something that I have been concerned about
2:14:17 for some time honestly, because I’ve had a parent reach out
2:14:20 to me that was arrested 20 years ago for something
2:14:22 that was stupid and he couldn’t volunteer at her school.
2:14:25 She was volunteer of the year multiple years in a row
2:14:27 prior to, so this policy needs to be looked at.
2:14:30 And this is one of those things I, you know,
2:14:32 where it’s difficult, which what’s the perfect option?
2:14:35 Unfortunately, there’s not one.
2:14:37 Really, I understand the thought process behind
2:14:40 the arrested or convicted, but like the parent
2:14:45 that we had at the last board meeting who was arrested
2:14:47 and never convicted, she was wrongfully arrested,
2:14:50 but can no longer go into her child’s school,
2:14:52 that’s problematic.
2:14:53 So how many parents are we disqualifying
2:14:55 because of an arrest?
2:14:57 One of the things that our website says
2:14:59 is that there is an appeal process.
2:15:01 But yet, I can’t seem to find that anywhere.
2:15:04 And that seems to be not something that’s on a regular basis
2:15:07 done.
2:15:08 So is there a way to talk about adding the appeal process
2:15:13 to this volunteer qualification so that we were able
2:15:17 to look at these a little more frequently?
2:15:19 Because there are certain cases where I think
2:15:21 it warrants us looking at them and saying,
2:15:23 hey, that looks good or that doesn’t look good.
2:15:26 What are your thoughts on that board?
2:15:30 (muffled speaking)
2:15:41 Can Major Neal speak about the appeal process?
2:15:43 It’s in your current policy right now, the appeal process.
2:15:47 But I think what you’ll find, you guys hear me okay?
2:15:49 I think what you’re gonna find is because
2:15:52 of that arrest language, it is a iron tight guideline.
2:15:58 So the only way you could appeal that
2:16:00 is if you came in and said something to the fact
2:16:02 and had the proof, that wasn’t me.
2:16:04 You see what I’m saying?
2:16:06 That arrest language is just so, so hard.
2:16:09 (muffled speaking)
2:16:18 Yeah, I think that giving the ability for the board
2:16:21 to review appeal processes would help
2:16:23 because there are circumstances, like I said,
2:16:25 the 20 year old arrest, I mean,
2:16:27 and you’ve had an outstanding citizen who owns a business,
2:16:29 who’s very productive, and nothing else.
2:16:31 It was something that they were 18 and dumb and young,
2:16:34 and that’s, you know, everyone was at one point.
2:16:36 So I think that those cases need to be looked at
2:16:38 and not necessarily just disqualified right off the rip.
2:16:42 If I can add to what Mr. Wilson provided
2:16:44 to each of the board members is that
2:16:48 when you’re looking at option one,
2:16:50 and I’m sure everybody knows this by now,
2:16:51 that is how the guidelines used to exist
2:16:55 prior to the change, okay?
2:16:57 And I don’t think it’s in your packet,
2:16:59 but quite simply, you have the disqualification
2:17:01 from employment.
2:17:03 These are guidelines we use in the office.
2:17:05 You will find, with the exception of volunteer
2:17:07 and employee or whatever, they’re identical, okay?
2:17:10 So just know that that original was derived
2:17:12 from the employment guidelines, which is statute driven.
2:17:16 There are some things added in there that the district can,
2:17:18 because you as a board, you never would do this,
2:17:21 but you get to make up the rules,
2:17:23 as Mr. Gibbs will tell you.
2:17:24 There’s no property right to be a volunteer.
2:17:26 You can say no more volunteers ever,
2:17:28 until the next major changes their mind.
2:17:30 I’m not saying you would do that,
2:17:31 but I’m saying you have that ability to form this
2:17:35 to meet the needs of this current board.
2:17:48 - Thank you for writing that up.
2:17:50 So this is identical to our employment eligibility.
2:17:54 It’s kind of weird to me that it would be stricter than that.
2:17:58 Also, let’s be clear, before I was on the board,
2:18:01 but this policy was changed specifically
2:18:04 to target one individual in our community.
2:18:06 That’s why it happens.
2:18:08 Again, unintended consequences came out of that.
2:18:11 Now we have parents who can’t come onto the campus.
2:18:14 So I’m all for option one, because number one,
2:18:17 maybe it’s the same exact kind I want for staff members.
2:18:20 I don’t believe we should have anything to do
2:18:22 with the appeal process.
2:18:23 We are not judging jury.
2:18:24 I have no think of stuff like whether someone’s arrest
2:18:26 is more valid or less valid than somebody else’s,
2:18:29 but it’s still not part of this.
2:18:32 I think they’re not convicted of it.
2:18:33 Someone already decided whether or not they did something.
2:18:35 So I think that’s fair enough.
2:18:40 This is slightly off of us, but just brought me out there
2:18:43 to talk to each other and the staff to just kind of,
2:18:46 in a weird way, it kind of streamlines there.
2:18:49 We have an incident where someone was a substitute
2:18:52 who was just fired because they didn’t disclose
2:18:56 the juvenile incident.
2:19:00 And I would like us to have a conversation about that.
2:19:03 ‘Cause when you have a grown adult applying
2:19:05 to do something, a professional coming to just substitute
2:19:08 additionally to your job, and they don’t disclose
2:19:11 something that happened when they were a juvenile,
2:19:13 I would assume it’s because that’s kind of made
2:19:16 past you in life, or if it wasn’t something outrageous,
2:19:18 like murder, or anything to do with harming your child.
2:19:22 I understand.
2:19:23 But something way less serious than that,
2:19:26 I think we need to have a conversation about that.
2:19:28 We’re not gonna talk about that right now,
2:19:29 ‘cause that’s not literally what we’re talking about,
2:19:30 but I have a feeling it’s kind of,
2:19:32 the conversation kind of needs to streamline from here.
2:19:36 - Anybody else?
2:19:39 Austin, you can go over option two and three again.
2:19:41 (muffled speaking)
2:19:44 - Yeah, as Mr. Wilson provided to you,
2:19:47 option two is simply, if you take this,
2:19:50 the really only change between this
2:19:52 and what currently you’re looking at
2:19:53 is there be a 10-year rule.
2:19:55 Meaning if you haven’t done anything in the past 10 years,
2:19:58 then you’d be considered to be a volunteer.
2:20:00 That’s really the only difference.
2:20:02 So just think of it as the 10-year rule
2:20:04 to the current guideline.
2:20:06 Does that make sense?
2:20:08 Okay.
2:20:09 And then if you go to option three, it just,
2:20:11 and again, these are just talking points for the board.
2:20:16 Remember, this can be anything that you guys decide.
2:20:19 And if you look at option three,
2:20:21 now that becomes a five-year rule,
2:20:23 except for those highlighted in red.
2:20:25 So again, it’s just to spark the conversation.
2:20:28 So you guys can really tailor this
2:20:30 however you guys feel you need to take it.
2:20:37 - Does anybody, do you guys feel,
2:20:41 seems like you guys feel comfortable
2:20:43 with giving direction to that?
2:20:44 Or did you guys, do you guys feel good?
2:20:47 Dr. Shiller, do you wanna weigh in?
2:20:48 - No, no.
2:20:49 - Okay.
2:20:50 It seems to me that there’s,
2:20:52 if you guys are comfortable, you can give direction.
2:20:55 Go ahead, Mr. Shiller.
2:20:57 - I’m just gonna ask the conversation.
2:20:59 I don’t know that I’m quite ready to log into my answer.
2:21:06 But I, you know, one of the things
2:21:08 that has been discussed before,
2:21:11 I know I talked with my former superintendent
2:21:14 about, you know, when we talked about the change,
2:21:16 you know, as mentioned, there’s no right to be a volunteer.
2:21:20 It’s the right granted.
2:21:22 There are laws specifically about employment
2:21:24 and they, you have to follow those.
2:21:29 One of the things that we discussed was,
2:21:31 what if someone got off on a technical,
2:21:33 we would hate to be responsible
2:21:34 if someone got off on a technicality, right?
2:21:35 So it doesn’t count as a conviction, but it was.
2:21:38 But then there are those, and if the new consequences,
2:21:41 again, keep coming back up,
2:21:42 of people who were falsely arrested and things like that.
2:21:46 So I am not satisfied with leaving it the way that it is.
2:21:49 So I definitely think we need to get away
2:21:50 from the one we’re currently in use.
2:21:56 You know, between, you know, like I said,
2:22:00 I’m not, I’m not really drawn to either one, two, or three,
2:22:08 flexible, I have to think, I think the main thing
2:22:10 is we need to make change, so.
2:22:12 - Okay, thank you, Ms. Camp.
2:22:14 Let me, if I could just kind of give a quick summation.
2:22:17 Option two says that if you are arrested
2:22:19 for any of those that are there,
2:22:21 including the red ones that are in there,
2:22:23 then it moves to the, you cannot do it for them.
2:22:27 - Option three, you mean, with the red highlight,
2:22:30 you’re right.
2:22:30 - Option three says, if you’ve never been arrested
2:22:32 for these, you’re disqualified.
2:22:34 But in the event that you’ve been arrested
2:22:36 for something else that’s above five years or 10 years,
2:22:40 then it goes into that piece of information.
2:22:42 - That’s correct, anything not highlighted
2:22:43 would suggest that if you haven’t been arrested
2:22:45 in five years, then you’re potentially eligible
2:22:48 to be a volunteer.
2:22:51 - So that says that basically everything in there,
2:22:52 if you’ve ever been arrested for it,
2:22:53 you can no longer be a volunteer inside of our school.
2:22:56 But in the event that you, you know what I mean,
2:23:00 five and 10 years, 12 and a half, based on the conviction.
2:23:03 - And I’ll just add this, Chair, and back to that caveat,
2:23:07 I think Dr. Schiller started out with this,
2:23:10 is just don’t forget, you can still employ them.
2:23:14 So you’re always gonna be stuck back in that place,
2:23:17 you know, with any, well, with option two or three.
2:23:21 - Can I jump in really quick?
2:23:22 ‘Cause I think, just so everyone’s paying attention to this,
2:23:26 the first part for option two and three
2:23:31 is talking about the felony pieces.
2:23:34 So if you continue on, there’s the five and 10 year
2:23:38 for other offenses, just making that clear to everybody.
2:23:41 So if it’s been an option one, it’s not like a everybody
2:23:44 gets a green light or anything like that.
2:23:46 There are very specific qualifications there
2:23:49 in your solicitation, as well.
2:23:51 - Well, and that’s the, that is one of the–
2:23:53 - Like, I wouldn’t want to have some felony here,
2:23:55 ‘cause I want to make that clear.
2:23:57 - If you end up with one of them, you’re agreed,
2:23:58 I don’t want no problem with that one.
2:24:00 - And to your point, Ms. Jenkins, those,
2:24:02 that’s okay, the last page, those are district added items
2:24:05 that are not statutorily driven,
2:24:06 just so the board understands, okay?
2:24:08 - I just wanted to clarify, like, I’m not going to touch
2:24:11 the next one.
2:24:12 - Well, and just, here’s a very consistency.
2:24:14 At the bottom of this page, these are people
2:24:16 who’ve actually been convicted of these things,
2:24:20 but then after a certain amount of time,
2:24:21 then they can come back in and look what we have at the top.
2:24:24 You’ve just been arrested, so you’ll never get to do it.
2:24:28 So, that’s a problem, because we’re actually saying
2:24:31 people who’ve been tried and convicted
2:24:34 can come back in after a time,
2:24:35 but if you’ve just been arrested, you can’t.
2:24:37 That doesn’t need to happen anymore, either,
2:24:41 ‘cause all of that talking about conviction’s not a threat.
2:24:43 - Right, and for clarification on those particular items
2:24:47 on the back that are, that were basically created
2:24:51 by this district way before me,
2:24:54 ‘cause those are not statutorily driven,
2:24:57 versus what you see on the front page and such,
2:24:59 that’s all from statute.
2:25:03 - And I don’t necessarily have a problem,
2:25:06 but it does not honor employment, does it,
2:25:07 or just wanna volunteer?
2:25:09 - Yeah, so here are your employment guidelines.
2:25:12 They are there.
2:25:13 - They are there. - Yes, ma’am.
2:25:14 - Okay, and we legally, and that is their firm.
2:25:17 I think we need to be, right, they’re pending.
2:25:20 - And there’s other things like you’ll see on there,
2:25:22 like if you have any pending charges,
2:25:24 that’s a nonstarter as well.
2:25:26 So, if they come in and we know there’s a recent arrest,
2:25:29 well, we don’t know where that case is going,
2:25:31 so you as a district have said, no, that’s pending.
2:25:34 - We’re not doing that. - It’s on hold, right, right.
2:25:37 So, I think even if we don’t go all the way
2:25:42 to make it the same as employment, which is option one,
2:25:45 we definitely don’t need to have people
2:25:48 who have been convicted having more privileges
2:25:51 to come back than people who have just been arrested.
2:25:55 So, I mean, it kinda sounds like then
2:25:57 that would be going back to option one,
2:25:59 which is the way that it used to be.
2:26:04 (muffled speaking)
2:26:37 - The thing is is we’re responsible for this,
2:26:38 and if we say, yes, option three sounds great,
2:26:41 and then somebody says, do you know, you just,
2:26:45 here’s the loophole in that one, and now we’re stuck.
2:26:48 So, yeah, I would like to take a look.
2:26:51 - We’ll just take a look in the screen.
2:26:53 - I have questions about the review process,
2:26:55 because I know you said with what we have currently
2:26:58 in place because it is so very clear
2:27:00 it’s really not a lot of approval right now,
2:27:02 ‘cause they appeal, and then there’s not really a reveal.
2:27:09 I don’t think there, whatever,
2:27:10 I don’t know what the deal was or what it was previously,
2:27:13 but I’m assuming it was in the direction of a longer record.
2:27:15 With option two, what is written in red
2:27:18 is that the Office of District and School Security
2:27:20 will consider and carefully review eligibility
2:27:23 if the arrest is pulled within 10 years
2:27:24 with no test of an arrest.
2:27:25 So, that sounds like it’s putting it
2:27:27 on major appeals departments to make those calls,
2:27:31 and then option three–
2:27:32 - I really wish you’d take that discretion away from me.
2:27:35 (laughing)
2:27:37 - So, that’s my question, then who’s making the call,
2:27:41 ‘cause if you get scared about the appeals process,
2:27:43 what we decide to do, and then again,
2:27:45 and option three, it says will be considered,
2:27:49 but it doesn’t explain–
2:27:52 - Yeah, in all fairness, with the appeal process,
2:27:54 the way it was written is actually
2:27:56 that decision will be made outside the office,
2:27:58 I’ll keep it aside, and then it goes back
2:28:00 to Mr. Wilson’s office, if there’s an appeal process.
2:28:05 We were trying to separate the two,
2:28:08 because again, it would be nice if there was no gray area,
2:28:12 and that’s why I made the joke.
2:28:15 This is a tough one for you guys,
2:28:17 because you wanna get it right,
2:28:19 and I can tell you there’s a lot of differences
2:28:23 that are out there, but relatively,
2:28:25 all the districts are using employment guidelines.
2:28:27 They may have some differences in different,
2:28:29 some of you may remember you used to have an A and A plus,
2:28:31 and all that, different levels.
2:28:33 We got rid of that years ago, prior to being,
2:28:35 now everybody’s background checked.
2:28:37 You may have other districts that make,
2:28:39 let’s just say they call it volunteer level one, level two.
2:28:42 Level one is background check, level two,
2:28:44 they can come in and volunteer,
2:28:45 but have to be supervised at all times,
2:28:46 what you would think as a visitor, right?
2:28:48 So it’s very robust that you’re actually
2:28:50 background checking everybody.
2:28:53 You may be doing that more than other districts,
2:28:55 so you got an edge there, but it’s all in how it’s written,
2:28:59 and what that outcome is,
2:29:00 ‘cause there’ll be outcome no matter what you do,
2:29:03 but it all goes back to how do you avoid that?
2:29:07 I’ll use an example.
2:29:08 You recently had a teacher, unfortunately,
2:29:11 that was arrested in Satellite Beach.
2:29:14 He went through the whole process.
2:29:16 All those things happened.
2:29:17 The district did what they should have done, right?
2:29:19 You background checked him, you vetted him,
2:29:21 you did all those things,
2:29:23 and then this, allegedly, he did what he did, right?
2:29:26 So you’re doing the same here with the volunteers,
2:29:28 you’re vetting them, you’re doing all these things.
2:29:31 Unfortunately, sometimes people do evil things,
2:29:35 but you just gotta make that decision
2:29:36 on how you can best protect our students.
2:29:44 - Like, I feel confident where I am on this,
2:29:46 but it sounds very clear that no one else does,
2:29:48 so I don’t know why we’re bringing this back tonight.
2:29:50 I don’t think that makes any sense.
2:29:51 I don’t know how to change your mind in an hour and 15 minutes.
2:29:53 You’re telling the public right now,
2:29:54 how do you know what we’re doing,
2:29:55 and then in an hour and 15 minutes,
2:29:56 we’re gonna make a decision on that.
2:29:57 I don’t think that’s perfect.
2:29:59 I would argue to maybe, if even possible,
2:30:03 to have a conversation with that
2:30:05 with the greatest information,
2:30:08 maybe how many people in the denial of things
2:30:10 are making this up?
2:30:11 How many people have been done in this process?
2:30:13 Or, and obviously we can’t,
2:30:15 we can’t calculate the people who haven’t done it.
2:30:17 We’re gonna do the past test, right?
2:30:19 And, or, how many potential issues
2:30:24 you might have had when the old policy was in place?
2:30:26 ‘Cause again, I’m being honest,
2:30:28 this policy was revised to attack an individual,
2:30:32 not because something happened here.
2:30:33 So, I mean, before we make these decisions,
2:30:38 that should be critical, as a force.
2:30:40 We feel comfortable making that choice,
2:30:42 so that we do feel like we’re making
2:30:43 the safest choice for our kids.
2:30:45 I think that’s important.
2:30:46 - So, to your point, Ms. Jenkins,
2:30:48 we don’t necessarily track denials.
2:30:50 Currently, we’re just not set up to do that.
2:30:53 I don’t know if I can give you that actual number.
2:30:56 And certainly you made the point, and you are correct,
2:30:58 those that, because as opposed to what the guidelines are,
2:31:01 never come in.
2:31:02 ‘Cause they know they’ll never get past the process, right?
2:31:04 So, there’s no way we can know that.
2:31:07 - Can I ask, I just wanna add something to this, though.
2:31:10 There’s nothing stopping those individuals
2:31:13 for coming in as a visitor, is there, to our schools?
2:31:17 - No. - No.
2:31:18 So, right, they have to be invited and supervised.
2:31:21 So, this policy being rewritten the way that it was,
2:31:24 it was a false sense of security in some ways,
2:31:27 and it made zero sense, because it ended up
2:31:29 impacting a bunch of parents that are really good.
2:31:31 That are– - It did.
2:31:33 - It did, and then it disqualified far more people,
2:31:36 and the overall objective was to keep an individual
2:31:39 out of a school, which is still,
2:31:42 I mean, it never was really there,
2:31:44 because they can come in as a visitor anytime they want.
2:31:47 And that is the reality of the situation.
2:31:50 So, for me, as much as, I know that this is,
2:31:54 I know what this could potentially cause,
2:31:56 but it makes zero sense to have stricter guidelines
2:32:00 for a volunteer than it does for somebody we can hire.
2:32:04 That, to me, makes no sense.
2:32:05 I cannot understand why we would say to them,
2:32:07 “You cannot come in here and donate your time,
2:32:10 “but you can come in here and we’ll pay you for your time,
2:32:12 “and that’s okay,” and have the exact same background.
2:32:15 I can’t wrap my head around that.
2:32:16 So, I know where I’m at on this.
2:32:17 I don’t know if everyone knows where they’re at.
2:32:21 I know where I’m at on this.
2:32:22 - I have to clarify, I’m not sure if you should
2:32:24 be able to state that, and I’m not on the long view,
2:32:26 but I just, there’s a part of me that says,
2:32:28 well, not necessarily, so I just want this to be clarified.
2:32:30 Like, our visitors, clearly, in some ways,
2:32:33 convicted of child abuse, you know, child pornography,
2:32:37 stuff like that, they’re not on our campus, correct?
2:32:40 - So, if they are registered sex offender,
2:32:41 the whole Raptor Management System exactly does that.
2:32:45 It cross-refers them through the national database.
2:32:47 - Right, and the application, and the reason
2:32:49 for this really wasn’t, so. (laughs)
2:32:52 So, yes, the things that we really wanna protect our kids
2:32:54 from, they can’t, they can’t.
2:32:55 - That, I– - No, I’m not directing you.
2:32:57 I just wanted to– - I was talking about
2:32:59 the specific individual that we were, yeah.
2:33:01 - I just wanted to make sure we were not assuming. (laughs)
2:33:04 - Yeah.
2:33:05 - So, what I’m hearing everybody say is,
2:33:07 if there’s a majority going to,
2:33:10 if we’d like to go back to the first one,
2:33:13 I would ask to wait until somebody to roll it to it,
2:33:17 just so that we can make it there.
2:33:18 If there’s a majority, then we have to do it.
2:33:21 So, Mr. Tremblay, you had something to say?
2:33:22 - Yeah, just to be clear, Mr. Neal,
2:33:25 thank you for putting this together, both of you guys.
2:33:28 Option one, I mean, that’s my biggest issue is,
2:33:30 I just don’t wanna volunteer.
2:33:34 To be in that situation that we’re talking about,
2:33:36 you can work here, but you can’t volunteer here.
2:33:38 Is option one that option?
2:33:40 - No. - No.
2:33:41 - No, no. - No, it takes care of that.
2:33:43 - Right. - Right.
2:33:44 - It does. - It aligns them.
2:33:45 - Test them. - Test them.
2:33:46 That’s what I would recommend.
2:33:48 - That was my only concern is,
2:33:49 and that’s, ‘cause that’s the concern I’m getting from,
2:33:53 you know, the public, is situation after situation is,
2:33:57 I can go apply and get a job there,
2:33:59 but I can’t volunteer there.
2:34:00 So, if we can take care of that situation,
2:34:02 I’m completely okay whenever, Mr. Chair, you wanna–
2:34:05 - Dr. Shilling, you have a question.
2:34:08 - Yes, essentially, we feel, going back to the original,
2:34:11 addresses the issues that also overlays on that,
2:34:15 the most extreme offenders
2:34:17 that we have other laws and statutes.
2:34:19 But if you go back to the original one,
2:34:23 not the one currently in place,
2:34:25 it satisfies all that we’re talking about.
2:34:28 That’s how we live with it.
2:34:29 And that is what I would recommend to the board,
2:34:33 because I’m hearing the conversation
2:34:36 that addresses the inconsistency, shall we say.
2:34:41 But it also, to Ms. Jenkins’ point,
2:34:44 which is absolutely on target, as Major Neal said,
2:34:47 there are other safeguards and precautions
2:34:50 that wrap around to make sure
2:34:51 that the most extreme offenders are not in our schools.
2:35:01 - Okay, well, there’s a majority of the board.
2:35:04 If you guys feel like moving forward now,
2:35:05 you can all give a thumbs up.
2:35:07 I would appreciate the opportunity to leave
2:35:09 and ask a couple of questions to Officer Neal.
2:35:11 But if you guys wanna do it,
2:35:13 it’s totally fine, it’s affordable, it can happen.
2:35:15 So, if you guys wanna go, that’s fine.
2:35:19 - I’m out here with giving you more of the time
2:35:20 to make you feel comfortable
2:35:21 and have the opportunity to speak with Officer Neal.
2:35:23 That’s fine with me.
2:35:24 - I don’t, I don’t have to worry about it here right now.
2:35:25 - I don’t.
2:35:28 If that’s not it, I have to go back for your policies.
2:35:31 Make sure there’s something in there
2:35:32 and ask any of the questions to Officer Neal
2:35:33 and to Rashad and everybody else.
2:35:35 So, if I can do that, that’s great.
2:35:36 If not, then you guys are totally fine.
2:35:38 We can move forward and stuff like that.
2:35:39 We have a clear interest in what we explore.
2:35:41 And it’s not that I’m not in favor of it.
2:35:43 I just wanted to reveal it because as soon as we reveal it,
2:35:45 I wanna make sure that we feel solid behind it.
2:35:48 - If we’re bringing this up tonight, though,
2:35:49 doesn’t it have to be posted?
2:35:51 Like, we’re probably voting on something that’s not–
2:35:53 - This is a, this is an administrative procedure.
2:35:55 - It should be discussed for directions and superintendents.
2:35:59 - So, I’m sorry.
2:36:00 Where were we bringing it up tonight?
2:36:01 When did you meet?
2:36:02 - No, I was just saying that if we brought it back up,
2:36:05 then we would give the official direction.
2:36:06 But it’s for one way or another.
2:36:08 So, I’m okay with giving the direction.
2:36:10 And if there’s anything that pops up,
2:36:11 you guys, it’s an administrative procedure.
2:36:13 We can bring it back in two weeks and readjust it.
2:36:15 - So, I just wanna clarify, I was understood.
2:36:17 That’s why I said it doesn’t make sense
2:36:18 for you why we’re bringing this up in an hour
2:36:20 because we’re not voting on it.
2:36:21 I don’t understand.
2:36:22 - It’s just–
2:36:23 - So, we’re just discussing it.
2:36:24 - There’s, and the individual we’re talking about
2:36:26 has nothing to do with the decision that I’m making right now.
2:36:28 There’s three other individuals.
2:36:30 And I need to make sure that those individuals
2:36:32 are gonna get through.
2:36:33 - That’s it.
2:36:34 - And I just wanted to make sure.
2:36:35 But you guys, listen, if I have an issue,
2:36:37 then we’ll work on it.
2:36:38 You guys get the direction, okay?
2:36:40 Do you feel confident in what you heard, Dr. Schone?
2:36:43 - Yes, sir.
2:36:44 I believe that what I hear is that
2:36:47 there may be some clarifications that some of you want
2:36:50 and that I’ll bring back this for the board.
2:36:54 If the board wishes to then take formal action,
2:36:58 it can do that.
2:36:59 If not, under the current board policy,
2:37:02 then I have the authority to go forward
2:37:04 to communicate and implement.
2:37:06 And basically, that’s how we would go
2:37:08 if I read this board intention correctly.
2:37:12 - Okay, the other thing that,
2:37:15 so we have five minutes, right?
2:37:16 And one of the things that I was gonna mention to you
2:37:19 is that from here, let me read this thing real quick.
2:37:23 Have in that we start getting into
2:37:25 the board responsibilities guide and stuff like that, right?
2:37:31 One of the things that I would like to just kind of
2:37:33 throw out there, I truly wanted to end at 4.30
2:37:37 and Dr. Schiller was like,
2:37:38 we can roll these to discussion tonight.
2:37:39 It’s not a big deal.
2:37:40 We do need some time and give the people
2:37:43 at the individual the appropriate time to do that.
2:37:45 But these, when you talk about responsibilities
2:37:47 and authority, board powers, member powers, all of that,
2:37:50 they can be one policy that all of them came to it.
2:37:53 It doesn’t have to be separate policy and on top of that,
2:37:56 you have, they’re all defined by state statute.
2:37:59 So I think that if we bring this back,
2:38:01 it’ll be a pretty quick discussion.
2:38:02 I don’t think that we’re gonna end up,
2:38:03 but it is gonna take more than five minutes to run.
2:38:06 So if you guys are okay with that,
2:38:08 I had one thing at the end that I wanted to talk about,
2:38:11 but I would like to shift the board powers,
2:38:17 member powers, legislative policy making,
2:38:19 responsibilities and authority to the board tonight,
2:38:22 because I think that it’s defined in statute.
2:38:24 It’s not like, you know what I mean?
2:38:26 We can’t give ourselves more power than is defined.
2:38:28 So there’s that, but I wanted to give Dr. Shiller,
2:38:30 if you feel that you can do yours in four minutes,
2:38:33 then we can do that.
2:38:34 If not, we can roll that out.
2:38:35 - These are yours. - Correct.
2:38:37 - And if you notice that many of them have been in place
2:38:41 for some years, if the board wishes to say, yes,
2:38:45 that is, we understand the statute, article four,
2:38:50 then you have completed your review
2:38:52 and then it would go through the process.
2:38:54 If indeed you find something at variance here,
2:38:58 then of course you can defer.
2:39:00 In terms of putting them all in one,
2:39:04 the bylaws that you have right now have them segmented.
2:39:10 - And each one of them has a different statute.
2:39:12 - That’s right, and so that’s why I would suggest
2:39:16 that we don’t change the, your board policy book
2:39:18 instead of very nicely, Neola’s doing it.
2:39:21 But I just think that this newly constituted board,
2:39:25 and again, gives you the opportunity also for us
2:39:29 to be able to get some clarification
2:39:31 as part of an in-service opportunity.
2:39:33 - Absolutely, and I think Dr. Shiller will bring that
2:39:36 into perspective of what we’re supposed to do
2:39:38 from previous meetings.
2:39:39 We can come back and discuss this.
2:39:40 I don’t think it can take that much time.
2:39:43 Yeah, he’s discussing tonight, but that’s okay.
2:39:45 - There’s only one that I have.
2:39:46 - Okay, and then what I did wanna mention to you guys
2:39:50 is that we’re seeing this today and some other stuff.
2:39:54 I’d like to move forward with having our workshops,
2:39:58 I have two options here,
2:39:59 workshops starting at nine o’clock
2:40:01 so that we can work through the day
2:40:02 and then come back and do a school board meeting.
2:40:04 It would allow us to get through a lot
2:40:06 of what we’re dealing with right now.
2:40:07 We came up short tonight, but I wanted to do that.
2:40:11 Or we could open up another workshop day
2:40:16 where we discuss ‘em all on a Thursday.
2:40:19 Just so everybody knows, prior to when I first came
2:40:22 on the board, we did start our workshops at nine o’clock.
2:40:25 Being the fact that some of us have full-time jobs,
2:40:28 doing it all in one day works out.
2:40:30 But I’m moving this into independent conversation.
2:40:33 I’d like to move to having it starting at nine o’clock
2:40:35 on our days that we have school board meetings.
2:40:37 So if somebody wanted to come speak
2:40:39 or they needed to take time off,
2:40:40 we could do that for both of them.
2:40:42 But I would be willing to listen to somebody
2:40:43 if they wanted to open up two Thursdays a month
2:40:46 to having all day workshops.
2:40:48 So with that, I was gonna offer it up to you guys.
2:40:51 Any conversations, Ms. Campbell,
2:40:52 you’ve had some conversations with me?
2:40:54 - Yeah, or if I, no, I’m sorry.
2:40:58 I think the long days, I know that people do it,
2:41:04 but the long days are really hard.
2:41:07 For that much decision-making,
2:41:09 it’s a lot of content.
2:41:10 I don’t actually think it would be a good idea
2:41:12 for us to schedule ourselves so much in due
2:41:15 that we are gonna have to make decisions
2:41:16 from nine to four, and then again from 5.30
2:41:19 to whenever we’re done.
2:41:21 Because sometimes we were ready to go to 8.30,
2:41:23 nine, nine, 10 o’clock.
2:41:25 We started at nine o’clock in the morning.
2:41:27 We’re getting fresh, we’re toast.
2:41:30 So if we wanted, there have been times
2:41:33 when we didn’t have several all the time,
2:41:35 and then we start the meeting at one.
2:41:36 Honestly, we could have done that today,
2:41:38 except for the last week, I mean, you all are coming.
2:41:41 But, you know, let’s start an hour earlier or whatever.
2:41:45 I’m not fond of the idea of the all-day marathon meeting
2:41:50 because I think it’s gonna be a lot of content
2:41:53 for us to get through and to be prepared for,
2:41:56 and to do it with excellence
2:41:59 that I think would have caught us wrong.
2:42:00 - I think, just so everybody knows,
2:42:02 if we were to schedule it at nine
2:42:04 and we were able to get through it quicker,
2:42:07 like it was a smaller amount, then we would finish,
2:42:10 and we would have the rest of the day
2:42:11 wasn’t even planned out.
2:42:13 I think one of the issues I had,
2:42:14 I could speak directly to that,
2:42:16 was that we have it to where like,
2:42:19 if we don’t put it out there at nine o’clock,
2:42:21 then we have all these other engagements
2:42:23 that we end up filling into the calendar,
2:42:24 and then all of a sudden we have board members
2:42:26 that aren’t present and stuff like that.
2:42:28 I understand what you’re saying about coming down an hour,
2:42:31 but we literally have a large amount of policies
2:42:34 and stuff like that that means we review.
2:42:36 It just came up short today,
2:42:37 so I would say that we’re going to see more of this,
2:42:40 and we need to finish the time.
2:42:41 So I’d like to figure out if either we move
2:42:44 to nine o’clock in the morning,
2:42:45 or can you go to the morning
2:42:47 and move to two separate days in the first day?
2:42:51 - So I– - That’s my comment.
2:42:52 That doesn’t mean that that’s what we’re supposed to do.
2:42:55 - So I don’t see the point in it at all.
2:43:00 I’ve been on this board for two years.
2:43:01 If there was a heavy day, we moved in an hour before then,
2:43:03 and everything got done.
2:43:05 Even today, heavy load, the only thing left over
2:43:08 was a bunch of individual policies
2:43:10 that will probably be discussed in 10 minutes.
2:43:12 We’re only stopping because we want to have the gas
2:43:14 between the board and the day.
2:43:16 I don’t think it’s necessary at all.
2:43:17 If we start them at nine in the morning,
2:43:18 we’re taking staff away from their day jobs additionally,
2:43:21 again, for really no purpose.
2:43:25 We’re eating the daytime.
2:43:26 Quite often, I’ll do something before my workshop
2:43:29 at a school, so if you’re just eating my entire Tuesday,
2:43:33 then it’s absolutely necessary.
2:43:36 We can adjust like we did over the past few years,
2:43:39 but there’s literally zero reason
2:43:40 to also have a nine-to-one workshop
2:43:42 every single time we’re meeting.
2:43:44 Some of these things, yeah, they need to get reviewed,
2:43:46 but there’s visual emergency to be reviewed.
2:43:48 They don’t have to get done right away.
2:43:52 I don’t know.
2:43:53 I don’t see the point in that.
2:43:58 My concern always is are staff’s lines being used
2:44:02 appropriately and efficiently,
2:44:06 and I don’t think that’s how we’re going to be doing that.
2:44:11 If we feel like the old schedule isn’t working for us
2:44:14 for some reason, then I think we can have that conversation,
2:44:16 but we haven’t even done the old schedule yet,
2:44:19 except for today, and we really didn’t have a problem with it
2:44:21 so I think we’re extending our day for no reason.
2:44:24 It leads to more conversations for no reason.
2:44:26 I think we need to just stay on track and see how it works out.
2:44:30 - Thank you, Ms. Jenkins.
2:44:31 - I would make the comment that our load amount
2:44:35 is going to increase.
2:44:37 I would also say that staff – -Mr.
2:44:38 Susan, why do you always get to comment
2:44:41 in additional times compared to everybody else?
2:44:43 -Just because I brought this forward.
2:44:44 -No, no, Mr. Susan, no.
2:44:46 Ask Mr. Trev or Ms. Craig.
2:44:47 You speak about robs from the border very often.
2:44:50 I’m going to throw them back at you, Mr. Susan.
2:44:52 -Thank you, Ms. Jenkins. -We heard you.
2:44:54 You restated yourself twice.
2:44:56 It’s someone else’s turn.
2:45:00 -So anyways – -You also don’t have authority
2:45:03 to shut them off. -I absolutely do.
2:45:05 -No, you do not. -Mr.
2:45:07 Gibbs, does Mr. Susan have the authority
2:45:09 to shut another border off? -It’s past 4.30.
2:45:12 -Point of order. -Point of order.
2:45:16 -Okay, point of order. It’s not your turn.
2:45:18 -Jenkins. -No.
2:45:19 -Ms. Jenkins, please. -No, sir.
2:45:21 I’m tired, as you think, Mr. Stupfel, as well.
2:45:23 I’m tired of it. -How do you feel about it?
2:45:27 -Well, when talking about the amount of work
2:45:30 that we need to get done,
2:45:31 obviously we’re going to give that decision,
2:45:35 honestly, between you three.
2:45:36 We’re going to weigh in on it because you’ve been here
2:45:38 for two years, four years, six years, whatever it is.
2:45:41 We got through quite a bit.
2:45:44 So I think it would be good for me to sit here and say,
2:45:48 “No, we need to be here from nine to four.
2:45:49 No, we need to be here from two to four.”
2:45:51 ‘Cause this is our first time through this workload.
2:45:54 But we will – You know, we’re going to maybe play this
2:45:58 by ear, again, in between.
2:46:00 Is it a 12 to 4 if we really think we need
2:46:02 and have a whole lot of work to do?
2:46:05 And if we get through that and we have time to spare,
2:46:08 then we can say, “Hey, maybe 12 to 4 was too much time.”
2:46:11 You know, I do appreciate the morning time
2:46:14 to get things done, as well.
2:46:16 But again, you’ve been through this,
2:46:18 and I am going to say I’m a junior board member on this.
2:46:22 -One of the issues that you’re going to face is –
2:46:30 So if we have a large workload,
2:46:32 which we have for the next probably 10 board meetings,
2:46:35 we are going to need as much time.
2:46:38 It’s not a question of how much time we have.
2:46:40 The question is whether we’re going to need it.
2:46:43 It’s just whether we move it from one day or to a third day.
2:46:47 And for some of us, it would be smarter to go ahead
2:46:51 and do it on the same day
2:46:53 so that we’re not impacting another dead bug.
2:46:56 I mean, we ask some of our teachers to do the same.
2:46:59 They go to work at 730, and they’re working night and day.
2:47:02 So that’s my thought process.
2:47:04 -So, what I would say is that it is the same amount of time
2:47:08 whether you do it over two days or one day.
2:47:10 The workload is not going to change based on us
2:47:13 doing – starting at 9 a.m. or 2 p.m.
2:47:17 When I’m looking at scheduling out my days, personally –
2:47:19 ‘Cause, Katie, you’re in the same boat.
2:47:22 South end, I’m in the north end.
2:47:23 So we have travel time back and forth.
2:47:25 So whenever – Huh?
2:47:28 Yeah, so, I mean, yeah, so we’re kind of – we are here.
2:47:31 Well, it just depends on how long we go for.
2:47:35 For me, I would rather –
2:47:37 I would rather condense it into a day
2:47:39 and then commit that day to my board in-house.
2:47:42 This is what we’re doing, and that way,
2:47:43 I have the other rest of the days to go to my schools
2:47:46 and attend the committee meetings
2:47:48 that we’re on and all the other things.
2:47:49 But that’s my personal preference.
2:47:51 I don’t – Again, it’s the majority that rules on this one.
2:47:55 But that’s my personal preference.
2:47:56 -I’ll be honest with you guys, 9 o’clock would be
2:47:59 the suggested time for the next board meeting
2:48:01 because we have a lot of time, okay?
2:48:04 Maybe what the idea is is that we schedule a phenomenon
2:48:07 and then we just think about it moving forward
2:48:09 and don’t think there’s a consensus on it.
2:48:11 -I just want to – I just want to remind you
2:48:12 that the reason why we have a lot
2:48:14 under the next several board meetings
2:48:15 is because we chose to do it that way.
2:48:17 Because we chose to go ahead and plow through,
2:48:20 you know, dozens of policies every month.
2:48:23 So we can slow that down to any point.
2:48:27 You know, we could even say,
2:48:29 instead of talking at least 9 to 9,
2:48:31 we could say, you know, let’s commit
2:48:33 to going through 30 minutes of these.
2:48:35 And if we don’t do that, we push them off to the next time.
2:48:38 There’s no rush except for our own rush
2:48:40 on the bottom of things.
2:48:44 But if we wanted to talk about this more tonight,
2:48:46 I would suggest that you go ahead and stop
2:48:48 and talk about it more tonight, if you want.
2:48:50 -Let’s go. Let’s go. -Great.
2:48:52 -All right.
2:49:16 -Thank you. -Thank you.