Updates on the Fight for Quality Public Education in Brevard County, FL
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1:54:09 a level four offense, again, I’m like who’s determining
1:53:58 it’s a level four now at this point, or a level three?
1:54:02 I guess this is where it gets just very complicated.
1:54:04 I’m like and why is a level four offense
1:54:07 have the same punishment as a level one offense?
1:54:08 It feels like the punishments should go up
1:54:11 as the levels go up, right?
1:54:12 So if you’re committing something that’s a level four,
1:54:15 the punishment should be heftier
1:54:17 than what’s available at a level one.
1:54:19 - Can I give an, I’m not gonna give an example
1:54:22 of behavior, right, but like, for instance,
1:54:26 I hate that we keep going backwards.
1:54:28 - I know, it’s like flip and flop.
1:54:29 - Physical aggression, if you were to raise
1:54:31 physical aggression, which would be the shoving, whatever,
1:54:34 to a four, there has to be room and discretion
1:54:37 for a principal to make a decision
1:54:38 what is right for that child.
1:54:40 So if you, I’m completely making this up,
1:54:42 but if you have a sixth grader that never shows up
1:54:45 to school, you’re not gonna wanna give them
1:54:47 an out of school suspension for shoving a kid.
1:54:50 You’re gonna think the better appropriate consequences
1:54:52 is to keep them in school suspension
1:54:53 because that’s a better consequence for that student.
1:54:56 So you have to give the principal that authority
1:54:57 to make that decision.
1:54:58 It’s not that they’re gonna passively get
1:55:00 a gentler consequence, it’s just that that consequence
1:55:03 is better for that student and more appropriate.
1:55:06 I can’t think of another scenario, but, you know,
1:55:08 it’s, again, we’re not talking about battery
1:55:10 where they get to just stay in school.
1:55:12 Every kid is different, every scenario is different,
1:55:15 and every school is different.
1:55:16 That’s the fastest thing I can think of
1:55:18 ‘cause I can think of those students already.
1:55:20 - And I can concur with that.
1:55:22 You’re correct, every situation is different.
1:55:24 Like you could have a kid who’s never been in trouble,
1:55:28 and you can have a kid that’s constantly,
1:55:31 so that gives you options.
1:55:33 Maybe this kid was protecting themselves,
1:55:36 and so, you know, they may not get that major consequence
1:55:40 where, ‘cause this is their first offense.
1:55:43 - It gives, for me, keeping it this way means
1:55:47 that they can give the same offense that they give
1:55:48 at level one or level three, two,
1:55:50 and it may cause confusion, like you were saying,
1:55:53 as far as why is level three the same as one.
1:55:55 So I’m okay with going PK through two,
1:55:58 and then, what is that, three through six
1:55:59 for level three to four, stuff like that.
1:56:01 Like, I’m okay with that if you guys are, too.
1:56:04 Seems like you have a majority of the board.
1:56:05 Gotta get moving, gotta get moving.
1:56:08 - We’re talking about changing the,
1:56:09 one, changing the breakdown,
1:56:11 but we’re also talking about are we gonna go along
1:56:13 with moving it from a level one to a level three
1:56:15 and from a level three to a level four?
1:56:17 - What does the board think
1:56:18 about changing the breakdown?
1:56:18 Let’s start there, first one.
1:56:21 Changing the breakdown, I’ll leave it at the same.
1:56:23 - I’d rather keep it pre-KK, one through six,
1:56:25 ‘cause I had it, because I feel like that is a better–
1:56:28 - Okay, and Ms. Jenkins, that’s where you’re at,
1:56:30 keeping it pre-KK and one through six?
1:56:32 - No, I personally, I don’t mind the proposal,
1:56:36 well, that’s a lie, I don’t like the ones underneath it.
1:56:38 I personally believe that the first proposal
1:56:40 should read pre-K to two,
1:56:42 and I think it should stay at a level one.
1:56:44 I don’t agree with jumping to a level three.
1:56:46 - So, no, we’re just talking about the breakdown
1:56:48 of the grades right now.
1:56:50 So pre-K to two, you’re okay with, and then three to six?
1:56:55 - That, to me, developmentally makes the most sense, but–
1:56:57 - And then secondary.
1:56:59 I think that makes sense to me, too.
1:57:00 So, all right, so we’re looking at,
1:57:02 and Gene, I don’t know if you need like an official,
1:57:05 how many said yes or how many said no to this?
1:57:06 - It doesn’t matter now.
1:57:08 - Well, we have three at this point,
1:57:09 so I don’t know where you’re at, but–
1:57:11 - I’ll keep it there.
1:57:12 - Okay, so now we’re gonna talk about the levels, so–
1:57:15 - Is it just point?
1:57:16 - We heard multiple things, not just–
1:57:18 - So the first one to move to physical aggression
1:57:20 one-sided is pre-K through two.
1:57:23 The second one to move to physical aggression
1:57:24 one-sided is three through six.
1:57:26 Now we’re gonna get to whether we’re moving them
1:57:28 from one to three and level three to four.
1:57:30 - Right.
1:57:31 - Does that help?
1:57:32 Sorry, I know that this is where we needed to go
1:57:33 to get this thing through.
1:57:34 - I know, it’s a conversation.
1:57:36 - Can I, and Ms. Wright, I heard you on trying
1:57:39 to find a compromise, but just hear me off for a second,
1:57:41 ‘cause by lifting it to a level two, it isn’t a compromise,
1:57:46 ‘cause now we’re now raising the offense
1:57:48 for the pre-K to the kindergartners,
1:57:49 where we agreed that a level one
1:57:51 was more appropriate for them.
1:57:54 So I just, I would like you to think about that,
1:57:56 because if you raise it from a level one to a level two
1:57:58 instead of a three, it’s still now raising the consequence
1:58:01 for those pre-K to kindergartners.
1:58:03 - Mr. Reed, if I can just, again, answer.
1:58:06 Raising it to the level three still gives
1:58:08 the same options as level one.
1:58:12 And they, but it does give the levity for this,
1:58:14 the principal to move to a level three
1:58:16 if they find it, correct?
1:58:20 - There’s less options at your disposal.
1:58:23 Again, speaking only of in and out of school suspension.
1:58:26 So a level three, help me, Ms. Bland,
1:58:29 a level three does have in school suspension,
1:58:32 does have out of school suspension,
1:58:34 one to three and four to five.
1:58:36 It does offer all of those.
1:58:38 But lower level corrective actions aren’t as long.
1:58:44 So the list for level three is this long.
1:58:48 The list for level one is this long.
1:58:51 So there’s options beyond in and out of school suspension
1:58:55 that you lose when we call it a three.
1:58:57 We basically are saying at a three,
1:59:00 you’re leaving class at that grade level.
1:59:04 - And I would say that, again,
1:59:06 this is recommended by our principals and our teachers
1:59:09 and everybody else to go to this level.
1:59:11 So that’s where I’m at.
1:59:13 I’ll now quiet down and let you guys speak.
1:59:15 - I, okay, I’m seeing questionable faces across the room
1:59:20 when you’re saying that,
1:59:21 so I wanna know why they’re making those faces.
1:59:22 But also, remember, you’re talking about five-year-olds,
1:59:28 six-year-olds, seven-year-olds
1:59:30 who could just be shoving in a line
1:59:32 and that teacher decides you need a consequence for that.
1:59:35 That’s up to that teacher to make that decision.
1:59:37 But that teacher can choose a consequence
1:59:39 like teach, reteach, or whatever else is on level one.
1:59:43 But if you move it to a level two or three,
1:59:46 or level three, you are now limiting those reactions
1:59:50 and consequences.
1:59:51 So what I expect will happen,
1:59:54 because we have kind, sweet, gentle,
1:59:56 loving elementary teachers,
1:59:58 they’ll be less likely to address and write up those offenses
2:00:02 because they’ll be forced to make
2:00:03 such an extreme consequence for it
2:00:06 because it’s not really appropriate response.
2:00:08 They’re gonna feel that way
2:00:09 ‘cause they’re used to working with those age groups
2:00:11 like I am, and/or you’re gonna have kiddos
2:00:14 who are getting extreme consequences
2:00:15 that really just aren’t appropriate
2:00:17 for the action that they had.
2:00:19 So yes, I hear you, Mr. Steeves,
2:00:22 and on the slide that they showed us,
2:00:24 they’re the same, but they’re not the same
2:00:25 because you’re taking away those other options
2:00:27 to teach the little guys.
2:00:29 - Yeah, and I would–
2:00:30 - But I also wanna know why you guys are making those faces.
2:00:32 - My main point is is that if our principals
2:00:35 and our teachers and everybody made this
2:00:36 as part of the proposal that we asked them
2:00:38 to go to the, to come together to come forward with,
2:00:40 then here’s what, this is what,
2:00:43 the reason that I would support it.
2:00:44 - Well, I hear you, but this, I mean,
2:00:46 we’re gonna be looking at a lot of things,
2:00:48 and staff’s already shown that some of the recommendations
2:00:50 were problematic, so I’m not, I appreciate their input,
2:00:53 but it was only some.
2:00:54 - I was gonna say, it wasn’t all of our principals.
2:00:56 - Right, right, right, so, yeah.
2:00:58 - If we were to move it from a one to a two,
2:01:01 like everyone is saying, that all your,
2:01:03 I mean, you’re adding, you already have in-school suspension
2:01:06 for the plant, you know, for the level one,
2:01:08 but if you move it up and you’re adding OSS,
2:01:11 you know, one to three or OSS four to five,
2:01:13 what it, what this says is we have to pick something
2:01:16 from that level, but we can also go back
2:01:19 and still pick something from lower levels.
2:01:22 So if it was moved up to a level two,
2:01:24 you pick something in level two,
2:01:25 and you still can pick another corrective action
2:01:30 from anything lower.
2:01:31 So you have all of this and all of this.
2:01:34 - Thank you, Ms. Plante, for saying that.
2:01:36 I think the idea is, absolutely, thank you for that.
2:01:40 Are we okay with?
2:01:42 - My vote would be to move it from a level one
2:01:43 to a level two, just so that there is the option
2:01:47 in the event, and again, I’m thinking of the most
2:01:49 extreme situation here is why I’m saying that.
2:01:51 - But if you recall, we are adding for repeated level one
2:01:56 and three offenses, they can move to the next level
2:02:00 so they could give something more severe,
2:02:03 like a level two or a level three if it’s repeated.
2:02:05 So it’s like that progressive discipline.
2:02:08 So that if you left it at level one,
2:02:11 they, if it’s repeated, they can pick from level one,
2:02:14 level two, level three, because we’ve opened that up
2:02:18 for administrators to choose.
2:02:20 - And if we move it to level two,
2:02:21 then they have both options, and they can still go there.
2:02:23 - So hold on. - That’s a good plan.
2:02:24 - Because when we started this conversation,
2:02:28 we all, I think so, all agreed that anything higher
2:02:32 than a level one for pre-K to K was not appropriate.
2:02:36 And then I convinced you all to change it to pre-K to two,
2:02:39 and now we’re raising it to a level two.
2:02:41 - No, I didn’t agree to that. - No, I didn’t agree
2:02:43 that it wasn’t appropriate, so, and again,
2:02:45 I’m thinking of the most extreme situation.
2:02:46 I’m thinking of a kid who just is horse playing around,
2:02:48 pushes a kid, and then the kid falls and breaks a bone.
2:02:51 And I’m like, well, wait a minute, that, you–
2:02:53 - Well, but what happens with the action of the child
2:02:58 didn’t change, what happens depends on where they were.
2:03:00 I cautioned against that, but we just need to look
2:03:05 at what the action was, what the purpose was behind it,
2:03:08 ‘cause that’s what the, those are the definitions have.
2:03:10 - I think with them being able to have the options
2:03:12 of level one or two, I think, giving the principal
2:03:15 the discretion to pick, ‘cause they can pick an option
2:03:17 that’s, level two isn’t gonna automatically mean
2:03:20 they’re out, they’re suspended.
2:03:22 - Well, I, hold on, I’m confused.
2:03:25 - It will mean, or they won’t?
2:03:26 - No, okay, okay.
2:03:29 So just reading directly out of our student code of conduct,
2:03:31 on a level two, the principal or designee must select
2:03:35 at least one of the following strategies from plan two.
2:03:39 The use of corrective strategies from plan one
2:03:41 may also be used in addition to, so if we move it up
2:03:46 to level two, we say they have to pick something
2:03:49 from out of here, so we are eliminating,
2:03:51 we’re not saying they can do level one things,
2:03:53 or they can do level one things in addition to level two.
2:03:56 They can do teacher reteach in addition to all these things.
2:04:00 But remember, a level one does include
2:04:02 up to three days of in-school suspension.
2:04:06 So if it is that more serious type of physical aggression,
2:04:11 they have that option as opposed to,
2:04:13 sorry, I’m gonna shove you for a second, okay?
2:04:15 - No, but many of our elementaries
2:04:17 don’t have in-school suspension.
2:04:19 - Well, some of them don’t have like a separate room,
2:04:22 but speaking as a person whose child got–
2:04:26 - They go to the office.
2:04:28 - Well, they had classroom reassignment,
2:04:30 so they had their in-school suspension
2:04:31 in somebody else’s class.
2:04:33 So those things are available for those kinds of actions.
2:04:41 I again, I think, and remembering
2:04:43 when the steering committee met,
2:04:44 the steering committee met early on in this process,
2:04:47 I’m moving the wrong slides, they met early on this process
2:04:50 before we had the new CESR definition,
2:04:54 which is gonna provide them more clarity,
2:04:55 before we had some of these other things in place
2:04:57 that we’ve done, before the other meetings
2:05:00 that have gone on, the May meeting and the June meeting,
2:05:02 to get even more input.
2:05:04 And so these are early on decisions
2:05:06 that I think some of this we’ve been able
2:05:08 to take care of in other ways.
2:05:10 So now we’re coming back to early recommendations
2:05:14 that aren’t as relevant because of some of the things
2:05:17 that we’re taking care of, like the CESR definitions,
2:05:21 more clearly defining the difference
2:05:22 between what physical aggression is
2:05:24 and what the simple battery is.
2:05:25 So I think some of that took care of all this.
2:05:29 So we’re not, again, ‘cause we keep thinking
2:05:31 about those extreme stories, but those extreme stories
2:05:33 aren’t going to apply to this definition.
2:05:36 - That’d be a level four simple battery.
2:05:38 - Right, a level four, even for a little one, right?
2:05:41 I mean, if a kindergartner is a big kindergartner
2:05:45 and can pick up a chair and throw it
2:05:46 at a teacher or a student, they’re there.
2:05:49 They’re a level four, it doesn’t matter if they’re pre-KK.
2:05:53 Okay, so let’s just remember what it is
2:05:55 because we didn’t have that necessarily tool
2:05:57 in our tool belt, that clear definition.
2:05:59 I think we’re already taking care of it
2:06:01 without going overboard to me on changing this
2:06:05 from what it was.
2:06:07 I think what we had a lot of was people coding things wrong
2:06:09 and people not having that option they could go to
2:06:12 for simple battery, but they do now.
2:06:15 So my, again, strong recommendation would be to leave it
2:06:19 like it is, which is pre-KK on a level one
2:06:22 and one through six on a level three,
2:06:25 and we have those tools in our tool belt now
2:06:28 to take care of those extreme situations
2:06:30 that we were hearing about from November on.
2:06:33 - So right now we’re working on PK through two
2:06:36 from a level one to a level two,
2:06:39 and we have two individuals that don’t want that.
2:06:41 I’m in favor of it.
2:06:43 - Are you in favor of it, Ms. Wright?
2:06:45 - So you just ignored everything that I just said.
2:06:46 - No, I’m trying to get to a consensus
2:06:48 ‘cause we’re still on the first one,
2:06:49 and it’s pre-KK. - But you went right back
2:06:50 to what we were talking about beforehand.
2:06:52 - Which was what we were arguing about
2:06:54 and making a recommendation on.
2:06:56 She made a recommendation, the argument is is that,
2:06:59 so I’m trying to see if there’s a consensus for that,
2:07:01 and if not, then we move to what you have.
2:07:03 That’s the process.
2:07:04 Just because you made an argument
2:07:06 doesn’t negate what she put on the table, that’s all.
2:07:08 So I’m in favor of it.
2:07:09 I’m okay to move it from level one to two.
2:07:11 Ms. Wright, you made the recommendation.
2:07:13 Are you still solid about that?
2:07:14 - I am, I am still. - Okay, Mr. Trent,
2:07:16 are you okay to move it from a level one to a level two?
2:07:19 - Instead of a level one to a level three.
2:07:22 - Yeah, because there’s not consensus
2:07:24 to go from a level one to a three.
2:07:26 I was okay with that, but it seems like
2:07:27 this is the only one that, the next level.
2:07:30 So that’s where I’m at.
2:07:32 - That would be a minimal, yeah, I would be fine.
2:07:33 - You’re good with that?
2:07:34 Okay, so it goes from, so the first one is pre-K through two
2:07:37 level one to level two.
2:07:40 The next one is move physical aggression one-sided.
2:07:42 We’re at now three through six from a level three to a four.
2:07:47 Let’s have discussion about that.
2:07:49 Open to the floor, I’m okay with that?
2:07:51 - I would leave it.
2:07:52 - I would leave it as a three, too, personally.
2:07:54 That’s what I would do.
2:07:56 - You guys, you have the opportunity to go?
2:07:59 Ms. Jenkins?
2:08:01 - Yeah, I mean, and you know, Ms. Campbell,
2:08:04 just so I can acknowledge that I heard what you were saying.
2:08:08 So if there wasn’t already a consensus going forward,
2:08:13 my personal feeling, listening to where we were going, is,
2:08:22 I would have preferred to leave pre-K through K a one
2:08:24 if it meant that everything else had to stay
2:08:26 at a level three, personally.
2:08:28 ‘Cause it really bothers me that we now have
2:08:30 four and five-year-olds that are going to move out
2:08:32 to a level two.
2:08:32 It’s insane to me, that is absolutely insane to me.
2:08:36 So, yeah, I just want you to know, I heard you.
2:08:41 - Okay, so now we’re on to the number,
2:08:44 so we all agreed that on the next one,
2:08:46 which is move physical aggression one-sided
2:08:47 from three to six, from level three to four,
2:08:50 now we’re on to the–
2:08:50 - No, we said don’t move it, we said leave it a three.
2:08:53 - No, I said move it to a level four.
2:08:56 - No, I thought we said leave it to a three.
2:08:58 - Leave it at a level three.
2:08:59 - We said leave it at a level three, that’s what we said.
2:09:01 - Just wanna remind everyone, simple battery is a level four.
2:09:04 So you now have a lower level incident
2:09:08 and have the same– - That is a four,
2:09:11 that’s what I heard, and simple battery,
2:09:13 which is a higher level incident, that’s a four.
2:09:15 - No, I was saying, I think leaving three through six
2:09:18 at a level three is sufficient.
2:09:21 That’s what I was saying.
2:09:22 - Yes, and that’s what Ms. Campbell said.
2:09:23 - That’s what the majority is then, okay, all right.
2:09:25 So that’s a majority.
2:09:26 All right, next up is move physical aggression
2:09:28 one-sided secondary from level three to four.
2:09:31 I’m okay with that, let’s have that discussion, leave it.
2:09:33 - No, leave it at a three, because then, again,
2:09:35 now we have simple battery, which is for those
2:09:37 more serious offenses that will be a four.
2:09:39 - Secondary kids should know by then
2:09:42 that you should be shoving kids.
2:09:43 - The action is still lesser.
2:09:44 - Right, they should, you’re absolutely right, Mr. Susan.
2:09:47 They should know by now that they shouldn’t be shoving kids,
2:09:50 and that’s why if they commit that offense,
2:09:53 we can’t act like there’s no,
2:09:58 we can’t act like there’s no consequence,
2:10:00 ‘cause a level three is alternative classroom placement
2:10:03 one period, that would be for some of these lower things,
2:10:05 probably wouldn’t have seen for this.
2:10:06 Extended detention, financial restitution,
2:10:08 in-school suspension, out-of-school suspension
2:10:10 of three days, out-of-school suspension
2:10:11 up to four to five days with leading and learning approval,
2:10:14 but I think we got rid of that.
2:10:16 Report to law enforcement, suspension,
2:10:18 pending parent/guardian conference.
2:10:20 I mean, there’s other things that are level three.
2:10:21 They’re not getting away with anything.
2:10:25 They should know, there’s consequences, okay?
2:10:27 - And it sounds like that’s the direction.
2:10:30 I’m okay with keeping it the way it is.
2:10:32 It seems like Ms. Wright is okay with leaving it
2:10:34 at level three at secondary.
2:10:35 - I am okay with leaving it at level three.
2:10:36 - Okay, and you have said the same thing,
2:10:38 and I think Ms. Jenkins, are you in that component?
2:10:41 You would like to leave the secondary component
2:10:43 to a level three?
2:10:45 Okay, so I think that that’s the direction we’ll go.
2:10:47 If you guys will move to the next slide.
2:10:49 Allow the principal to move up from level one to three
2:10:51 for repeated incidences.
2:10:53 - Absolutely.
2:10:54 - We’re all agreeing?
2:10:55 Good, I mean, okay.
2:10:57 Remove out-of-school suspension, OSS from level four.
2:11:00 I’m okay with that?
2:11:01 - I don’t understand what that is.
2:11:04 - Yeah, that makes no sense.
2:11:06 - Just that I don’t, I’m not really clear on that.
2:11:10 Why would we remove it?
2:11:11 - Oh, it was a suggestion.
2:11:13 So now the only thing that you have is out-of-school
2:11:15 for a level four, so you don’t have that choice
2:11:18 to use in and out.
2:11:19 - Oh, is that supposed to say in, then, right?
2:11:21 - ‘Cause it says remove out-of-school suspension
2:11:23 from level four. - Oh, sorry.
2:11:25 I’m sorry.
2:11:28 - But I’m confusing, ‘cause right now,
2:11:29 level four doesn’t have in-school.
2:11:31 It has out-of-school one to five,
2:11:33 and out-of-school up to 10 days pending.
2:11:36 And even alternative placement.
2:11:37 - Maybe you guys can help me on this.
2:11:40 Why would we have out-of-school suspension
2:11:43 one to three days, and then out-of-suspension
2:11:45 four to five days, and out-of-suspension two to 10?
2:11:50 - It’s all over the place.
2:11:50 - Instead of just saying out-of-school suspension
2:11:53 from one to 10 days, or is it a different code?
2:11:58 Okay. - Two to 10 is when there’s–
2:11:59 - Well, because even before in level three,
2:12:01 we had suspension one to three, and four to five.
2:12:03 I’m just looking at, why isn’t it one to five?
2:12:07 It’s all different codes.
2:12:09 - There’s different paper to suspend in.
2:12:11 - And the two to 10 pending investigation
2:12:13 is a very specific, like, we could be expelling that child.
2:12:16 - Well, yeah, it just says out-of-school suspension
2:12:18 two to 10 here. - Right.
2:12:19 That one is very specific.
2:12:22 - Okay. - It could be going further,
2:12:24 in other words. - But it is to remove
2:12:25 the in-school suspension out of level four.
2:12:28 - Sorry, I jumped ahead.
2:12:29 That was line three, so if we are still on line two,
2:12:31 remove out-of-school suspension from level four,
2:12:34 that would mean our only consequence
2:12:36 would be the two to 10 pending, you know, pending–
2:12:39 - Okay, so you’re gonna remove one to three,
2:12:41 and four, and five?
2:12:42 - That’s what was put out there.
2:12:45 - You still got three to 10. - Yes.
2:12:46 - Yeah.
2:12:48 - I’m okay with that?
2:12:49 - That means you’re going straight to expulsion,
2:12:51 in essence. - No, no, no, no.
2:12:52 - Right? - No, no, no.
2:12:53 - Isn’t that what that means?
2:12:54 - No, sometimes they–
2:12:55 - He’s shaking his head yes.
2:12:56 - There’s not much left. - It means you’re doing
2:12:58 an investigation every time if they’re put
2:13:00 in out-of-school suspension.
2:13:03 - Right, but they don’t have to be expelled.
2:13:05 They can come back on a five-day suspension.
2:13:07 They can come back on a two-day suspension.
2:13:08 - But we’re also then forcing them to have an investigation,
2:13:13 and when maybe that isn’t necessary,
2:13:16 so we’re taking a tool away from our administrator
2:13:19 who wants to suspend a student out of school,
2:13:23 but we’re forcing them to investigate.
2:13:24 Am I correct in my interpretation?
2:13:25 - No, it’s a level four.
2:13:26 I should have an investigation. - Am I correct?
2:13:28 Am I interpreting that correctly?
2:13:28 - I guess it’s a serious advance.
2:13:29 - Right, ‘cause if that’s what’s left,
2:13:31 that’s what they’re going to be doing,
2:13:32 putting a kid on a two-to-ten plane investigation.
2:13:34 The kid’s gonna go out for however many days.
2:13:37 They’re going to do the investigation,
2:13:38 bring them back, and decide if this kid
2:13:40 is going to have an alternative placement.
2:13:43 - And I think the reason behind it is,
2:13:45 if I can remember this, is because level four
2:13:47 is such an extreme case that they wanna have investigations,
2:13:51 and in some cases, there were not investigations
2:13:54 on some of the level fours,
2:13:55 and that’s what maybe that was doing.
2:13:56 That was my, that was, yeah, but if a principal
2:14:00 or somebody is deciding, if there’s a teacher in there,
2:14:02 and they say, “Look, this is wrong,
2:14:03 “and there’s no investigation on a level four,”
2:14:06 those were extreme, that’s what I thought when I saw that.
2:14:09 I’m okay with it.
2:14:10 - I’m not, I’m uncomfortable with accepting that proposal
2:14:13 without really knowing the why behind it,
2:14:15 and I don’t feel like we have a good–
2:14:17 - I don’t feel like we do either.
2:14:18 - Dr. Endell, as a most recent building principal,
2:14:22 I think we need some clarity.
2:14:24 - Sure, to be honest, I wouldn’t remove OSS options
2:14:28 in level four.
2:14:29 I think what I’m understanding, again,
2:14:32 these are recommendations from the one steering committee.
2:14:35 This isn’t from all the different groups.
2:14:36 They’re going through the recommendations
2:14:37 of that first steering committee.
2:14:39 Now, it seemed to have the most stakeholders, okay,
2:14:42 but removing out-of-school suspension one to two days,
2:14:46 one to three days, five days, whatever, as an option,
2:14:49 I wouldn’t want, you said earlier,
2:14:51 you want the principals to have some flexibility
2:14:53 and leeway to run their buildings.
2:14:55 If you remove that, you have to do a 10-day pending,
2:14:58 you have to start the process,
2:15:00 and there are plenty of times where you have a situation
2:15:02 that’s a level four, it’s a very serious offense,
2:15:04 but you know you’re not gonna go recommend for expulsion,
2:15:07 so why start the process?
2:15:09 Why do all that?
2:15:11 I would want the flexibility.
2:15:12 - All right, that’s enough for me.
2:15:14 - So the consensus of the board, from what I’m hearing,
2:15:17 is to leave it the same and not move
2:15:20 to out-of-school suspension from level four, correct?
2:15:22 - Yeah, ‘cause again, they’re bringing
2:15:25 these recommendations, these proposals,
2:15:28 they may not be in favor of those proposals themselves,
2:15:31 they’re just showing you what was put out
2:15:33 by the committees.
2:15:34 - So I think there’s consensus on that,
2:15:36 you guys have that, yeah, to at least take that one out.
2:15:39 The next one is remove in-school suspension from level four.
2:15:43 - It’s not in there now, is that why there’s?
2:15:48 - For the pre-K through six, I’m looking at it right now,
2:15:51 the in-school suspension. - Oh, I’m not looking
2:15:51 at elementary, I’m looking at, sorry.
2:15:53 - Oh.
2:15:54 - I forgot, there’s a second. - So this should be for…
2:15:59 - So for elementary, it does have in-school suspension.
2:16:04 - Again, I’m gonna make that argument
2:16:05 that there are different consequences
2:16:07 that are more extreme to certain students
2:16:09 and situations where that is actually
2:16:12 a more extreme consequence for that kiddo
2:16:14 than to send them home.
2:16:17 - Yeah, I don’t think it’s a smart idea
2:16:19 to take away anything that they have available
2:16:21 to them to use as, I mean,
2:16:24 personally, I can’t see why you would take away
2:16:26 in-school suspension.
2:16:28 - And I want you to think about like a sixth grader
2:16:31 who’s in-school suspension now puts them
2:16:33 in another classroom.
2:16:36 For some kids that age, that is absolutely
2:16:39 a way more significant consequence to them
2:16:41 than to send them home, that you just outed them
2:16:44 and put them in another classroom.
2:16:45 So we have to give those administrators–
2:16:47 - But what are you doing to that class you just put them in?
2:16:50 - I had an incident where it was an elementary school
2:16:53 and the in-school suspension was to just give
2:16:56 that student with the current behaviors
2:16:59 in another class.
2:17:03 It wasn’t much of a deterrent of behavior
2:17:07 and it was more of a, now I got a call
2:17:10 from that teacher saying all they did was hot potato
2:17:15 and that’s just the way it was.
2:17:17 If it’s a level four incident,
2:17:19 there’s many principals that are not going to,
2:17:22 they’re gonna take the path of least resistance
2:17:24 and not have to hear it from a parent
2:17:25 and just put them in another classroom, him or her.
2:17:27 - Yeah, but now we have given the flexibility
2:17:30 of the principal to move.
2:17:33 - But if it’s not, I don’t necessarily want that.
2:17:36 But anyway, it’s a level four incident.
2:17:38 - We need to leave all the tools in the toolbox on this one.
2:17:41 - Again, more flexibility– - Yep, more flexibility.
2:17:43 - More flexibility.
2:17:45 - It’s just gonna shine that spotlight
2:17:47 on that principal even more.
2:17:47 - If we see that becoming an incident,
2:17:49 then we can address that. - That’s fine.
2:17:51 - If we see that becoming a pattern, we can address that.
2:17:53 - So that one, we are not gonna, yeah, strike.
2:17:55 Move out of area, elopement elementary
2:17:58 from level one to three.
2:18:00 OSS up to five days, Keaton, I’m okay with it.
2:18:04 If you guys– - No, absolutely not.
2:18:07 - Okay, can we get, let’s get and make sure
2:18:09 we’re understanding exactly what that is going to mean.
2:18:12 What does that look like out of assigned area elopement?
2:18:14 What kind of things could be classified
2:18:16 as out of assigned area elopement?
2:18:18 - Yeah, I love it would be leaving the top.
2:18:20 - So if you get, if we made that level three,
2:18:23 extended detention, in-school suspension,
2:18:26 out-of-school suspension, out-of-school suspension
2:18:28 would be the choices that you have.
2:18:32 If you leave it at a one, you have many more options
2:18:37 for any age child or from an elementary age child
2:18:41 as an alternative corrective action.
2:18:44 And if it’s a repeated offense, now we give the principals
2:18:47 the flexibility to pump it up.
2:18:50 - Just to be clear on elopement, does that mean,
2:18:52 ‘cause again, out of assigned area and elopement,
2:18:55 to me are two significantly different things.
2:18:57 So is this a child who has left campus
2:18:59 or define elopement for me?
2:19:01 - It could be that we’re out of the classroom as well.
2:19:03 - But how would that not be out of assigned area
2:19:05 versus elopement?
2:19:07 - Elopement I think is off campus.
2:19:08 - We have a leaving campus that’s I think on the next slide.
2:19:11 And so we too feel that we’re gonna need
2:19:14 to better define those things.
2:19:16 Skipping class and going to gym versus running off campus
2:19:19 and running around the playground all day,
2:19:21 we need to define those items better.
2:19:25 But that’s something we recognize right now.
2:19:28 - I think a child that leaves campus,
2:19:29 yes, that’s a huge concern, that’s a major safety concern.
2:19:32 And so I think that that needs to be a hefty punishment
2:19:35 that goes with that.
2:19:36 But a child that is on the playground
2:19:39 or skipping class and going to the–
2:19:39 - Well, it used to be defined separately,
2:19:42 differently, correct?
2:19:42 Out of area was if you didn’t come back from the bathroom
2:19:45 in 15 minutes, you’re out of area.
2:19:47 Elopement is if you decide to go to the 7-Eleven
2:19:50 and get a Slurpee.
2:19:54 - I believe they’re still leaving campus.
2:19:55 - So elopement means like for instance,
2:19:58 you have a young child who runs out of the classroom
2:20:00 and runs to the playground
2:20:02 because they’re being reactionary for whatever reason.
2:20:04 - Well, yeah, they’re out of the area.
2:20:05 - Yeah, but you’re still on the campus.
2:20:08 - So, but why is that not out of area though?
2:20:10 I mean, that’s what I’m saying.
2:20:11 I’m like this, you gotta define those two things.
2:20:13 I think that they can’t.
2:20:14 - Out of area should be on campus,
2:20:16 elopement should be off campus.
2:20:17 That’s an easy definition.
2:20:18 - This is an elementary code,
2:20:22 so I’m not okay with moving this from one to a three.
2:20:24 And again, I think some of this problem
2:20:26 from this early committee that we took care of
2:20:28 because we’re allowing them to be moved up
2:20:30 for repeated offenses.
2:20:32 So I think some of the concerns
2:20:33 that people are bringing to us with this
2:20:35 are going to be addressed by that.
2:20:37 So I think we need to leave this
2:20:39 because it is such a broad thing
2:20:40 and it could be some small things
2:20:42 that just need to be corrected
2:20:43 and it could be kindergartners and things doing that to,
2:20:47 you know, we need more definition before we just say,
2:20:50 oh, yeah, we’re just moving it to a three.
2:20:52 - So, but here’s the thing.
2:20:53 An elopement, if elopement means leaving the school grounds,
2:20:56 then yes, by all means.
2:20:58 - It doesn’t mean leaving the school grounds.
2:20:59 - Okay. - Well, it needs to say that.
2:21:00 - No, that’s coming up. - That’s a different code.
2:21:02 - Okay, leaving campus is coming up.
2:21:04 - Leaving campus. - There’s another one.
2:21:05 - Okay, so we have, why do we have two then?
2:21:08 Why do we have moving out of this?
2:21:09 I mean, that’s just.
2:21:11 - So can I ask a question?
2:21:13 So I’m hearing, and tell me if I’m wrong,
2:21:15 I’m hearing that out of area and elopement
2:21:17 aren’t defined differently,
2:21:18 but it’s my understanding that they are,
2:21:22 in practice at least.
2:21:24 And so elopement always meant leaving your classroom
2:21:27 like a threshold of some sort or an invisible boundary,
2:21:31 right, you run off the playground
2:21:32 to go back to the classroom
2:21:34 or you leave the lunchroom to go to your classroom
2:21:36 or whatever.
2:21:37 And out of area typically means
2:21:39 you’re still within the confines
2:21:40 of that imaginary boundary,
2:21:42 but you’re not where you’re supposed to be.
2:21:44 And it’s not as simple as like,
2:21:45 you know, two feet off of the line.
2:21:47 But you know, Johnny’s not staying in his chair,
2:21:49 Johnny keeps hanging out in the corner of the classroom
2:21:51 and won’t return back to his seat when redirected.
2:21:54 That would be more of an out of area.
2:21:55 - That makes sense.
2:21:56 But I guess, and if you can imagine,
2:21:58 if the five of us are sitting up here
2:21:59 having these conversations,
2:22:00 how is a teacher or a principal gonna know
2:22:03 how to code something like this
2:22:04 if it’s not clearly defined?
2:22:05 So I think we have to be very clear
2:22:07 with what each one of these things means.
2:22:10 I mean.
2:22:13 - So just as we’re looking at our code of conduct,
2:22:15 leaving campus is actually defined by statute.
2:22:18 So that’s a different, yeah, it’s its own code
2:22:21 because it’s defined by statute.
2:22:27 - So.
2:22:31 - Does she feel comfortable on the last one
2:22:33 on the last slide for direction?
2:22:34 - No, ‘cause I need another direction.
2:22:36 - From a level one to three is keeping it at a level one.
2:22:39 - Keeping it at a level one.
2:22:40 - Move out of area, is that–
2:22:42 - Can you go back, can you go back to it so that we can,
2:22:45 or I’m sorry, yes, I’m sorry, number four.
2:22:47 Move out of area assignment.
2:22:48 Again, I’m okay to do that,
2:22:50 but there seems to be consensus to leave it alone.
2:22:53 What are you guys’ feelings?
2:22:55 - Yes, I would love for you guys to clearly define the two.
2:22:58 ‘Cause I believe elopement should have a heftier penalty
2:23:01 than out of area.
2:23:03 So I think that you need to separate those two.
2:23:05 Because if I’m hearing Ms. Jenkins correctly,
2:23:07 and she’s saying that’s a kid that’s leaving a classroom, or.
2:23:09 - So.
2:23:10 - Sometimes it could be a student with.
2:23:12 - Yeah, so traditionally, Ms. Ray,
2:23:14 it’s like trauma-induced students.
2:23:17 It is not always, but often in the youngest grades.
2:23:20 It’s students who have trauma.
2:23:22 So their natural reaction is to flee, fight or flight.
2:23:25 And again, traditionally these students would then
2:23:27 be identified, get a behavior plan, and whatever.
2:23:30 But it’s not, they’re not running to get off of campus.
2:23:34 They’re not, it’s just a different intention
2:23:37 behind the behavior, so it’s not as extreme.
2:23:40 - Can I tell you a story?
2:23:41 - Yeah.
2:23:44 - So you have a student who was sitting
2:23:47 in an awards ceremony, who struggled academically,
2:23:53 and sat, and the situation doesn’t happen anymore,
2:23:55 but who sat time after time after seeing older siblings
2:23:59 get awards and go up on the stage,
2:24:01 and sat through their first award ceremony,
2:24:04 and didn’t get called, and someone who has an IEP,
2:24:09 and when that happened, got very, very emotional,
2:24:14 and yelled at a teacher, and then ran out of the cafeteria
2:24:20 where the awards ceremony was being held,
2:24:22 and ran to the other side of campus,
2:24:25 and bless her heart, the poor little counselor,
2:24:28 who was not very tall, didn’t have very long legs,
2:24:30 had to chase that child down, ‘cause he was upset.
2:24:38 That child did get some corrective strategies,
2:24:41 and did have to do, serve time in another classroom,
2:24:47 but do you want to put that elementary child
2:24:52 in one of the situations of a level three,
2:24:57 and take those other options away?
2:25:01 There need to be consequences,
2:25:03 ‘cause that child needs to learn.
2:25:04 You have to regulate your emotions, and all of those things,
2:25:09 but let’s just stop and think, ‘cause it’s easy,
2:25:13 it’s so easy for us to start thinking
2:25:14 about all these things, but there’s lots
2:25:17 of different reasons why, and when we take tools
2:25:19 out of the tool, I understand we want people
2:25:21 to be consistent, but we take tools out of the toolbox
2:25:24 for our principles, I just caution us against that,
2:25:27 because they are reading those student situations,
2:25:30 and needing to tailor discipline
2:25:33 to what’s going to be effective with that child.
2:25:37 So I am not in favor of, and especially
2:25:40 without the clarification of what these are,
2:25:44 I am not in favor of us moving out of area,
2:25:49 elopement, from a level one to a level three.
2:25:54 Can I ask a quick question, ‘cause it came up personally
2:25:57 with my wife, kids that leave campus,
2:26:00 is it our standard procedure to allow them,
2:26:02 once they’re gone, off of our campus,
2:26:04 not to have staff chasing after them
2:26:06 through the streets and stuff like that,
2:26:09 or is it our job to, we call the police, right,
2:26:12 and that’s the way that it’s supposed to go?
2:26:14 For elementary students, like we’ll just say,
2:26:18 at Gardendale, for elementary students,
2:26:19 we absolutely do follow.
2:26:22 Oh, you follow.
2:26:23 So like, if there’s a–
2:26:25 Blue shirt, jeans, still got eyes on ‘em,
2:26:28 blue shirt, jeans, street.
2:26:29 So the issue that I’m saying is,
2:26:31 is that there was an incident where
2:26:33 the kid runs off campus, and you’ve got
2:26:35 one of our staffers running across streets
2:26:37 and stuff like that trying to stop him,
2:26:38 and it puts us in a very difficult situation,
2:26:40 and that’s not, I don’t think,
2:26:42 something that we should be doing.
2:26:44 I think you should pick up the phone call, please.
2:26:47 I’ve always been told that,
2:26:49 especially with the elementary assistant principal,
2:26:52 that we need to do everything within our power
2:26:54 to say, “Come back,” you know?
2:26:56 But you could force a kid, if you’re running,
2:26:59 and they go in the streets, so you could call,
2:27:01 so the attorney may wanna weigh in on that,
2:27:03 but you need to do everything within your power,
2:27:06 not necessarily run behind ‘em,
2:27:08 but say, “Come back, Johnny, come back,
2:27:09 “we need you,” and then calling for support.
2:27:12 - But if they’re running off into neighborhoods,
2:27:14 you’re not supposed to go jump the fence
2:27:15 and chase after ‘em across streets and into neighborhoods.
2:27:17 - Keep eyes on them, while we call the law enforcement,
2:27:20 we keep eyes on them.
2:27:21 - And keep saying, “Come back.”
2:27:21 - But what I’m getting at is,
2:27:23 if they’re out of sight from the campus,
2:27:26 it shouldn’t, right, it should not be the responsibility
2:27:28 of the administration or the staff
2:27:29 to chase after that kid through the neighborhoods.
2:27:31 - The expectation is the officer’s gonna pick them up
2:27:33 and bring them back.
2:27:33 - Problem is, they don’t show up for, like, sometimes,
2:27:35 ‘cause they’re busy for 35 to 45 minutes,
2:27:37 you got a kid running around, ends up at Target, right?
2:27:40 And then we have that situation.
2:27:41 - So I think Mr. Gibbs is gonna weigh in.
2:27:42 - Go ahead, Mr. Gibbs.
2:27:43 - Yeah, I would not encourage anybody
2:27:46 to chase somebody into a dangerous situation.
2:27:49 You also have dangerous situations
2:27:50 that could create liability for staff.
2:27:52 If staff’s jumping fences
2:27:54 and they tear a rotator cup or something,
2:27:56 now you’ve got workers caught in liability.
2:27:57 - And that’s what I was getting at,
2:27:58 is there’s not a clear, like, some of our people
2:28:01 don’t know that that’s the proper thing to do,
2:28:03 and they go chasing after ‘em, and it causes a liability.
2:28:06 - Well, and the other thing to consider with this,
2:28:08 again, with elopement more so
2:28:10 than moving out of a signed area,
2:28:11 is what about all the other students
2:28:14 when a teacher has to stop and chase a child?
2:28:16 What about all the other kids that are sitting there
2:28:18 that are not, that don’t have a teacher now because of this?
2:28:20 I had a PE coach–
2:28:21 - The teacher cannot follow that child.
2:28:23 - So that’s 100% what is happening in elementary schools.
2:28:27 I had a PE coach.
2:28:28 - They literally should not be doing that.
2:28:29 Then the administrator needs to be redirected.
2:28:32 That’s not allowed.
2:28:32 - But the reality is when a kid takes off
2:28:35 and they’re radioing for help and no one’s coming,
2:28:39 what are they supposed to do?
2:28:40 So again, that’s why I’m like,
2:28:41 these two things need to be separated.
2:28:43 It needs to be moved out of a signed area as one,
2:28:47 elopement as another.
2:28:48 And I think that elopement does carry a heftier punishment
2:28:53 because of the risk it is for, I mean,
2:28:55 all those other students that don’t have a teacher
2:28:57 or the multiple administrators that are chasing down a child.
2:29:00 That needs to be something that’s handled
2:29:03 a little more harshly, I think, than–
2:29:05 - So to summarize, I think what staff can take back is
2:29:07 we need to take out of a signed area
2:29:09 and separate it from elopement.
2:29:11 Out of a signed area, possibly remain at level one,
2:29:14 elopement possibly have a higher consequence.
2:29:18 - We have to bring this back to you for approval anyway.
2:29:20 So if that makes sense, they can take that guidance back,
2:29:23 separate the two, define them out of a signed area.
2:29:26 Definitely in the elementary grades is a one.
2:29:30 Elopement may be a two, and we’ll come back with that.
2:29:33 - All right, sounds good to me.
2:29:35 Is that good with the consensus?
2:29:36 - Yeah, well, Mr. Reed, you had said there’s like three,
2:29:41 three definitions possibly.
2:29:43 Just so I can clarify and I can go home and I know,
2:29:46 it sounds like out of area could be in the same classroom
2:29:51 where Johnny doesn’t go back into the area
2:29:53 that he’s supposed to be.
2:29:54 - But if he doesn’t stay in his center–
2:29:56 - Yeah, right, and then it sounds like then elopement
2:30:00 could be he runs to the playground.
2:30:03 And then the third one is off campus, okay.
2:30:06 - And any of them could be willful disobedience too.
2:30:09 - Well, that’s why I didn’t understand the out of area
2:30:11 in a classroom, that’s usually you’re not, okay.
2:30:15 So if we can get all three of those defined
2:30:16 as a former classroom teacher,
2:30:18 that’s new that you could be out of the area
2:30:20 when you’re in the area, but that’s fine.
2:30:22 Okay, great.
2:30:23 - Thank you. - Thank you.
2:30:24 - Next up, add functional behavioral assessment,
2:30:26 FBA update or behavioral intervention plan, BIP,
2:30:30 BIP as a corrective action for level one.
2:30:33 - Are you guys in favor, yes.
2:30:36 - I guess we could be–
2:30:37 - So I’m in favor of it because I’m assuming something
2:30:40 and I just want you to make sure,
2:30:41 I wanna make sure I’m not making an assumption here.
2:30:45 Can you explain to me how it would potentially circumvent
2:30:49 the MTSS process and expedite a BIP being put in place?
2:30:54 ‘Cause that’s how I’m reading that.
2:30:57 - This is for students that already have one.
2:31:00 And you know lots of things that are going on
2:31:03 and they’ve committed a level one infraction, an incident,
2:31:07 and you’re choosing as the corrective action
2:31:10 to add to the existing plan.
2:31:13 I don’t believe that it would speed anything up
2:31:15 or slow anything down.
2:31:16 It’s saying we’ve got a great plan in place
2:31:19 and this student committed a level one infraction
2:31:22 and we wanna tweak our great plan to make it even better.
2:31:29 - Okay, so I guess, so that’s a little different
2:31:31 than I was thinking, but I’m still for it.
2:31:34 I guess, so a scenario would be sometimes we put in place
2:31:38 interventions that cause new behaviors
2:31:41 in which this would be the appropriate consequence
2:31:43 because the professional recognizes the constraints
2:31:47 in which that situation was may have caused
2:31:50 an additional behavior to occur.
2:31:54 - I think we need to be careful that we’re not saying
2:31:56 we’re adding to a student’s behavior plan because–
2:31:59 - So yeah, I’m just confused.
2:32:02 - We’re just, we’re making some changes
2:32:04 to the existing plan at lower levels.
2:32:06 - Okay. - Okay, we all agree?
2:32:09 - Yep. - Sure.
2:32:10 - Okay, they agree, we agree.
2:32:12 - That’s okay, if you guys, the consensus is there.
2:32:14 - I think it’s another tool for the administrator.
2:32:18 - Okay, next.
2:32:22 - It’s okay, we’ll see if, ooh.
2:32:26 You guys wanna take a minute?
2:32:27 - Gosh, can we take a break for a second?
2:32:28 - Guys, if we could take a five minute break, that’s okay.
2:32:31 - Okay. - We’re all good on that?
2:32:33 We’re gonna take a five minute break, recess.
2:32:37 - Thank you.
2:32:40 (gentle music)
2:44:02 - Welcome back.
2:44:03 We are now onto the Steering Committee’s
2:44:05 Corrective Action Recommendations.
2:44:09 The first of these is to move
2:44:11 the electronic tunnel communications device misuse
2:44:14 from level one to two.
2:44:18 I’m okay with that.
2:44:19 Let’s open the floor for discussion.
2:44:20 I would also say, just so everybody knows,
2:44:23 that we have a lot of other items
2:44:25 besides what’s on side of this presentation
2:44:28 to discuss on discipline.
2:44:29 So just so that you guys know,
2:44:31 if we can keep our comments to a conversation
2:44:35 and then move on each one of these, it would be good.
2:44:37 So I’m making the recommendation to move
2:44:39 from level one to two.
2:44:40 Let’s have a conversation.
2:44:41 - Well, I think we need to keep this really short
2:44:43 because the staff has already pointed out,
2:44:46 we need to read the whole entire thing,
2:44:47 including the right-hand side,
2:44:48 which tells us that this is gonna conflict
2:44:51 with our own policy.
2:44:52 So their recommendation is to keep it a level one
2:44:54 with the tiers that we have according to our policy
2:44:56 and according to our cell phone use plan.
2:45:00 - Can we incorporate what you have provided for us,
2:45:03 which I like a lot with the minor cell phone misuse?
2:45:06 I think that that’s a great solution that,
2:45:09 would that conflict at all?
2:45:10 I don’t think it would, would it?
2:45:14 - I don’t understand the question.
2:45:15 - On page 13, on page 13 on the slideshow
2:45:17 that she provided where it talks about the minor cell phone,
2:45:21 it’s the outline of offenses and corrective interventions.
2:45:26 ‘Cause it kind of–
2:45:27 - This is right, this is right and gone,
2:45:28 that’s gone further to the PowerPoint slides to your–
2:45:32 - Oh, yeah, to define–
2:45:33 - Well, no, ‘cause we’re talking about cell phones, sorry.
2:45:35 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:45:36 - Showed what you did in the other district.
2:45:39 So if we follow that process with our current policy,
2:45:42 that was our thing there.
2:45:44 - It would clean it up?
2:45:47 All right, Ford, are you guys in consensus with that?
2:45:48 If you look at page 13 of the slideshow or the slides.
2:45:52 - Yeah, I think they’re gonna ask us later on
2:45:54 for that to go across the board for consequences too
2:45:58 and actions.
2:45:59 - I have a question about the one on the bottom.
2:46:00 The financial restitution, is that just related
2:46:03 to cell phone use or is that–
2:46:06 - No, no, it’s just the topic.
2:46:08 - What was the reasoning behind that?
2:46:11 And it says pending, so where are we?
2:46:13 - We’re removing it.
2:46:15 - We’re not sure what the rationale was of what,
2:46:17 I mean, we’re reading notes of meetings we weren’t in
2:46:20 and we’re not sure why we didn’t wanna potentially
2:46:23 pursue financial restitution.
2:46:25 So it was a recommendation that came out
2:46:27 of one of those meetings, the steering committee.
2:46:29 And we will write it in or write it out
2:46:34 based on your directives.
2:46:35 - Can you give me an example of what that would look like?
2:46:39 - Well, the one comment that was made was that
2:46:42 if we ask a kid to say, you’re gonna have financial
2:46:45 restitution of something and then they don’t do it,
2:46:49 what can we really do?
2:46:50 Like, can we really hold graduation?
2:46:52 That was one thing that they said.
2:46:54 - They offer a textbook and we say that you’re not
2:46:56 gonna walk, you know.
2:46:58 So the graduation, right, if you really can’t do anything
2:47:00 with it, why use it?
2:47:04 Paul?
2:47:08 - I haven’t looked at it, I wasn’t in those meetings, so.
2:47:11 - But can we legally withhold like graduation?
2:47:15 - But we do.
2:47:16 - I would have to look at it for sure, yeah.
2:47:18 - We make students not able to go to prom
2:47:22 if they haven’t paid all their, or go to GradVenture
2:47:24 or whatever if they haven’t paid their–
2:47:27 - Yeah, I think you can have those consequences for sure
2:47:30 and I think you can even restrict walking.
2:47:32 That’s a typical thing, but can you restrict the conveyance
2:47:35 of a diploma they’ve otherwise earned?
2:47:37 No, you probably can’t, would be my guess, but.
2:47:43 - Okay, so I think we have consensus on the first one
2:47:48 and am I hearing the second one and third one?
2:47:51 - So, I agree with leaving it in the tears.
2:47:56 I think that’s what Ms. Wright said.
2:47:58 - The–
2:47:59 - The recommendations on the right.
2:48:01 - Right, and Ms. Wright wants to support going forward
2:48:06 the specific definitions in the future slide.
2:48:11 - Yes, I mean, I think, I think we’re probably auditing.
2:48:15 (muffled speaking)
2:48:22 - Restitution, I think, is the committee’s recommendation
2:48:25 to remove that as a possible consequence.
2:48:32 Again, it’s another tool, a toolkit, we’ve had vandalism,
2:48:36 and as for the, some of the credits we’ve paid
2:48:39 for the profit, so we’re not sure why we’d take that out.
2:48:45 - Thank you, I admit when I don’t know things
2:48:47 and I genuinely didn’t understand
2:48:49 how we would ever implement that.
2:48:50 (muffled speaking)
2:48:53 Okay.
2:48:55 So, can we keep the, so we don’t wanna remove funding.
2:48:58 (muffled speaking)
2:48:59 Okay.
2:49:01 - Yeah.
2:49:03 - Nope, we’re good, there we go.
2:49:05 Adulant detention from level one and two.
2:49:09 - Two level, yes. - No, two level one and two.
2:49:11 - I like those, I’m in favor of that.
2:49:14 - Yep.
2:49:14 - All right, we’re gonna add failure
2:49:16 to serve lunch detention also, level one.
2:49:20 Okay, all right, we’re good there.
2:49:22 - Can I ask a question about that?
2:49:24 I’m not against it, by any means, but is that really
2:49:27 different than an in-school suspension,
2:49:28 or is in-school suspension only used
2:49:30 for a totality of a day?
2:49:32 - Yeah, I think this recommendation was
2:49:35 add lunch detention as a recognized tool
2:49:38 in the center of the country.
2:49:40 Don’t think it’s in there?
2:49:41 - Okay.
2:49:42 - I think that for tracking purposes,
2:49:43 we would want to have lunch detention.
2:49:45 I think for tracking purposes, we would wanna have that
2:49:48 as a, you had lunch detention, you didn’t serve
2:49:50 lunch detention, now you’ve got this.
2:49:52 - Okay, all right, something more specific.
2:49:54 - Okay, thank you.
2:49:57 - All right, we’re good there.
2:49:58 Other actions, students will no longer
2:50:00 be able to attend the ALC prior to hearing?
2:50:03 - I have a question about this.
2:50:05 - Go for it, it’s on the–
2:50:06 - So if I am, make sure that I’m understanding,
2:50:08 and for the explanation for our new board members too.
2:50:10 So in the past, if we’re doing a two to 10 day,
2:50:13 or while we’re waiting on the official process
2:50:16 to go through, we could go ahead and have kids,
2:50:19 if their parents signed a paper agreeing it to,
2:50:21 they could go ahead and start at the ALC.
2:50:23 While we’re going through the process, is that correct?
2:50:29 And then so what we’re saying is,
2:50:33 they wouldn’t have the opportunity to do that.
2:50:37 - Can I clarify that for a second?
2:50:39 - Yeah, please. - Yeah.
2:50:40 - That this right here came from multiple people,
2:50:43 because it’s, yes, we have students going there,
2:50:47 and their days aren’t being counted against them.
2:50:50 However, there’s a lot of issues with that.
2:50:53 There’s a lot of missed paperwork.
2:50:55 There’s a lot of problems that come with that.
2:50:58 And so it has, it’s good and bad.
2:51:03 That was one of the recommendations from,
2:51:06 the deans had a conversation about that,
2:51:08 as well as people at the ALC,
2:51:10 that when you’re trying to push kids through,
2:51:13 and you don’t have all of your information,
2:51:16 you have to withdraw them, you need a bus.
2:51:17 There’s a lot of things, so by the time you get them in,
2:51:20 then you’re going back to your,
2:51:21 you’re completing your hearing.
2:51:23 So what potentially then would happen is,
2:51:25 if this, if we’re waiting to see
2:51:26 if a student is going to be expelled,
2:51:29 then they could be home for longer than 10 days,
2:51:32 while we’re waiting to get that done.
2:51:38 - It’s up to 10 days, so we should be having that hearing.
2:51:41 - Yeah, theoretically,
2:51:42 we wouldn’t be able to keep them out past 10 days.
2:51:44 Like you have to wrap up this process within the 10 days.
2:51:47 - So it speeds it up, the process.
2:51:48 - Okay, is that the idea then, to speed up the process?
2:51:53 - Just so you have the right paperwork,
2:51:54 where you’re not undoing what was,
2:51:57 the parent thought the kid was going to ALC,
2:51:59 by the time they get the documentation,
2:52:01 it’s like, no, no, there was a mistake.
2:52:04 So it’s just cleaning it up,
2:52:05 that they’re really assigned to that location.
2:52:08 - And also, just for the student’s benefit as well,
2:52:13 if we have a student that ends up not going to an ALC,
2:52:16 causing that shift in placement,
2:52:18 and again, it’s the word of the day, but it’s true,
2:52:21 another trauma of putting them in another location,
2:52:23 and then pulling them out and putting them back
2:52:24 in their school, it’s just causing a situation
2:52:27 for no reason for that student.
2:52:29 - Can I ask a silly question?
2:52:31 ‘Cause I don’t know the answer to it,
2:52:32 but I mean, if we’re talking about a 10 day process,
2:52:35 what about, in that timeframe, they’re not in school?
2:52:38 I mean, so they, what about their absences?
2:52:42 - They’re considered suspensions.
2:52:44 - Okay, so they’re not, and those are okay to be,
2:52:46 I guess suspensions don’t count as absences for students?
2:52:49 - Well, no, they’re absences.
2:52:51 - They are.
2:52:52 - Like if a kid gets in a fight,
2:52:53 within 10 years, you’re investigating your,
2:52:56 but you’re not assigning them automatically to the ALC.
2:53:00 - Right.
2:53:01 - No, I get it, but I’m just saying,
2:53:03 as far as like the nine absences allowed in a semester,
2:53:05 where does this play, how does that play out in this
2:53:07 scenario, does it matter, or does it?
2:53:09 - You have to apply for that.
2:53:10 - Right, which is why it’s risky to elevate
2:53:12 some of these things, though, because if a principal
2:53:14 chooses a higher option of suspension
2:53:16 for some of these minor infractions,
2:53:17 it impacts things like that.
2:53:19 - But this absolutely impacts the ALC,
2:53:21 because now we’re a holding cell for,
2:53:23 not only the kids that are already there,
2:53:25 but now we have kids there, correct,
2:53:27 so that it makes it very, very difficult.
2:53:30 And then we have kids that go there and then
2:53:32 prefer to stay, it’s, you know, for some kids,
2:53:35 it’s just, it’s like being sent somewhere,
2:53:38 you’re not sentenced yet.
2:53:40 So we haven’t said that you are guilty of whatever happened.
2:53:43 - You’re saying that if they, students will no longer
2:53:46 be able to attend the ALC prior to the hearing,
2:53:48 that’s a good thing, because they’re not impacting
2:53:50 the ALCs in a negative way, and it’s good
2:53:53 to have them to where I understand 100%.
2:53:56 I get it, I don’t even think we’re good to go.
2:53:58 Good to go.
2:53:59 - All right, yeah, consensus on that.
2:54:00 - Physical aggression, one-sided versus simple battery.
2:54:02 I think we already had conversations around this,
2:54:04 we talked about it, good to go.
2:54:06 Next up.
2:54:07 - Can we talk about that some more?
2:54:07 - No.
2:54:09 - First funny thing I’m laughing at.
2:54:10 - It might have to happen.
2:54:12 - Revise referral to include previous
2:54:14 administrative actions.
2:54:16 - That’s important.
2:54:17 - I love that.
2:54:19 - Any argument?
2:54:20 I mean, this should have been done, you know what I mean?
2:54:22 So we’re good here?
2:54:23 Good, okay.
2:54:24 If parent contact is logged on referral automatically,
2:54:27 write into student documentation contact logs.
2:54:31 Look, I think it’s great.
2:54:33 All right, formatting change to discipline manual.
2:54:36 - No, just kidding.
2:54:38 - That’s her, she likes to do that.
2:54:40 I swear she doesn’t read ‘em, she just scans it
2:54:43 with Microsoft Word and then finds it.
2:54:46 ‘Cause it’s like every meeting I’m like, who does that?
2:54:48 - Yeah, I just went through it with the deans
2:54:50 in the elementary APs and we went page by page
2:54:54 and that’s one thing that we did,
2:54:55 so that’s why we put that in there.
2:54:56 - Perfect, there’s some literacy teachers over here too,
2:54:58 we could probably use that too.
2:54:59 All right, let’s go on to the next one.
2:55:01 Developed charter for discipline advisory committee
2:55:04 outlining governance, yes.
2:55:06 Where are we at with that?
2:55:07 Do you have it?
2:55:08 - The FYI, they made some recommendations
2:55:11 of what that committee would look like,
2:55:12 so do you want us to pursue those recommendations?
2:55:14 - Would love that.
2:55:16 - So they’re looking at, they’re gonna look at the data
2:55:19 each year, right, of here’s all the fences that we had
2:55:24 and here’s the ones, here’s the results.
2:55:26 I mean, they’re gonna look at it and then maybe tweak
2:55:30 and bring forward to the board tweaks
2:55:32 from like what we did today and say maybe this one
2:55:34 needs to move up, maybe this one needs to move down,
2:55:37 add tools, that’s what you’re,
2:55:38 they’re gonna be looking at that detail.
2:55:40 - Do you have a 15 member team yet?
2:55:42 - Yeah, is that staff only?
2:55:45 Like what is this?
2:55:46 - Who is it? - What is it?
2:55:47 - I’ve done that, well, that’s what I’ve done
2:55:50 for the, even with Dr. Rendell,
2:55:52 where we put it out public notice.
2:55:54 I mean, it’s like anybody can come to these district,
2:55:59 it’s like work groups that you’re looking at the data,
2:56:03 you’re giving feedback and you’re giving updates
2:56:06 and then you’re bringing the recommendations to the board
2:56:09 and of course the board gets to decide.
2:56:11 In the past, I’ve started that process,
2:56:14 the staff in November is public notice
2:56:17 for us to start in December.
2:56:19 So everything is brought to the board early March.
2:56:23 So we have it in time for our families
2:56:26 and for everybody to know what the code of conduct,
2:56:29 ‘cause you have to have it out for 30 days.
2:56:30 - Yeah. - Mm-hmm, I love it.
2:56:32 - So there is no 15 member committee yet.
2:56:34 This is just the process that they would set up.
2:56:37 - They would set up. - If we were to pursue this,
2:56:38 which I would recommend.
2:56:40 Would this be 15 staff members though
2:56:42 and then the public can come or it could be public member?
2:56:44 Like, what is this?
2:56:45 Who makes up the teams?
2:56:46 - Well, the draft is 13 to 15 individuals.
2:56:50 They must live in Brevard County.
2:56:51 One would be a parent, a school board member,
2:56:53 each board member will appoint a parent guardian,
2:56:56 no more than two members from Brevard Public Schools,
2:56:59 no more than two members from BFT,
2:57:02 no more than two members from BASA.
2:57:04 So it’s very detailed.
2:57:06 I mean, you may wanna lay eyes on this.
2:57:07 - So we each get one and there’s one from union groups,
2:57:10 stuff like that. - And you know what?
2:57:10 Earlier in the year, I think in February,
2:57:12 we were all asked to come up with someone
2:57:14 and then that kinda went away.
2:57:15 So this would be– - That is true.
2:57:16 - ‘Cause I was like, I remember coming up with a name
2:57:19 and then they didn’t do it. - Yeah, I emailed the name.
2:57:20 - So yes, I already have my person.
2:57:22 - I do too, me too, if they still will do it.
2:57:24 - How long until you can bring that back to us
2:57:25 for full approval?
2:57:29 - I would say August.
2:57:32 - We wanna get through the code of conduct.
2:57:33 - Yes, one thing at a time.
2:57:35 - But August won’t be– - In Gardendale and–
2:57:36 - ‘Cause they won’t need to review anything
2:57:38 because we don’t have any data to start reviewing
2:57:41 until after August. - Yes, usually,
2:57:43 you would have that data based on August, September,
2:57:46 October, you’d have it in December, January,
2:57:48 so you’d have– - Sometime in August,
2:57:49 you guys will come forward with the recommendation
2:57:51 for charter along with dates that you would like
2:57:53 to have them meet, that way we can do it.
2:57:55 - Okay, ‘cause I was gonna also make a suggestion
2:57:58 ‘cause I voted against the organizational change,
2:58:00 but it’s happening, right?
2:58:01 So I also think something for us to keep in mind
2:58:04 is the intention is for one of those departments
2:58:06 to be in charge of discipline.
2:58:10 So I mean, obviously, I think it’s important
2:58:13 for them to bring it forward so we can get on it,
2:58:14 but I think it’s also important for us to keep in mind
2:58:17 and be cognizant and wait until we also have a staff member
2:58:19 and a department functioning to be able to be receptive
2:58:22 to whatever’s happening within this team
2:58:23 ‘cause starting it without that doesn’t make any sense.
2:58:26 - Yep, correct. - I agree.
2:58:27 - All right, I think we like it.
2:58:29 Move on.
2:58:31 Okay, we already did that.
2:58:36 We already went through this, right?
2:58:37 - Yeah, well, there was a– - But I think they want–
2:58:38 - The next slide had a– - I’m asking if they want it
2:58:40 for all of it, don’t they?
2:58:42 - So on the last slide where you’re talking about option A
2:58:43 or option B, this is an example of if we chose option B,
2:58:48 then everything would be lined up like this.
2:58:50 That’s what you’re saying.
2:58:51 - The whole Boolean– - Ah, I love it.
2:58:53 - We did it for a dress code and I actually have samples
2:58:56 here that you can actually look at with examples.
2:58:58 - Love it, don’t need it.
2:58:59 - So our students, so this is for when we talk
2:59:01 about developing our student code of conduct next year,
2:59:04 or is this like administrative procedures off of our
2:59:06 student code of conduct?
2:59:08 What is this?
2:59:09 - We had previously, this coming year,
2:59:12 added to the code of conduct, and then part of that
2:59:15 is training, specific training outlined for students,
2:59:21 for administrators, for teachers, for bus drivers.
2:59:25 It’s consistency with the code of conduct,
2:59:27 along with Boolean, along with Title IX.
2:59:30 There’s a whole plethora of training that–
2:59:34 - Needs to take place. - I love it.
2:59:36 - Yes, that’s good. - Love it.
2:59:37 - So the short answer is the entire code of conduct
2:59:39 would look like this, would have pages like this.
2:59:42 - Love it.
2:59:43 We’re all good? - Yep.
2:59:45 - All right, do we have any other slides
2:59:46 we need to go through?
2:59:47 Okay, I think at this time, if there’s anything
2:59:49 that you guys have as far as individual board members
2:59:52 in relation to discipline that we can have, Miss,
2:59:56 if you’ll take a look at, I have a series of things
2:59:59 I can start it off, or we can go.
3:00:03 One of the things we talked about in our meetings
3:00:06 is that the data needs to be housed in one central place
3:00:09 and be able to be viewed, right?
3:00:11 So I think we were using focus.
3:00:13 The issue that we had was, and I’m just kind of
3:00:15 preliminary laying it up, is that we had multiple places
3:00:19 where some of this data was hidden, right?
3:00:21 So you had workers comp data from teachers getting hit,
3:00:24 right, and then having that discipline,
3:00:26 was that followed up?
3:00:27 Then you had, you had Cesser data that was in,
3:00:31 it was all kind of, you had the violations,
3:00:33 you had sort of a description,
3:00:35 but then there were all these outliers, right?
3:00:37 You had Title IX stuff that was going on,
3:00:39 there were some of the discipline may not have
3:00:41 followed through on some of the things, right?
3:00:42 So is there a plan to pull that all together?
3:00:49 - I had a conversation with Dr. Rendell
3:00:51 because we did something similar,
3:00:54 and put processes in place for all of these to track,
3:00:58 and for, and trained on that for bullying,
3:01:01 Title IX, what else, cell phone,
3:01:07 all of the codes, the major codes.
3:01:09 But it will take some, we just.
3:01:14 - It won’t be ready for August.
3:01:15 - It will be ready for August, we’ll be able to.
3:01:17 - No, it won’t be, it won’t be.
3:01:19 - It won’t be ready for August because,
3:01:21 no, it won’t be ready for August
3:01:23 because we’re just learning focus,
3:01:27 but we’re putting, that’s our main problem,
3:01:28 we’re putting processes in place,
3:01:30 and we really got to work with ET and work as a team
3:01:35 to get processes in place with that.
3:01:38 It does, it doesn’t happen overnight, it really doesn’t.
3:01:42 It takes time.
3:01:43 - So in the meantime, like just to make sure that
3:01:46 when a teacher is physically attacked,
3:01:51 that we also have it, have a successor,
3:01:54 has it as a discipline issue, how are we,
3:01:59 ‘cause when I went to go make the request,
3:02:01 she was like, well, our database doesn’t have,
3:02:02 it was like, it was that antiquated when we did it
3:02:05 when I pulled it.
3:02:06 So how are we able to, can you see what I mean?
3:02:11 - Yes, as for.
3:02:13 - You’re talking about battery on the school board employees.
3:02:15 - Shouldn’t there be a code?
3:02:16 - There you go.
3:02:16 - You can put a code.
3:02:17 - You can pull that data through focus,
3:02:19 but the problem was it was new and we were trying to learn,
3:02:23 this is 400, we had many, many double digit years
3:02:26 to learn that.
3:02:27 So that was just the process of being able to do it
3:02:30 so that whatever data we give you get the same data
3:02:32 each time.
3:02:33 So it was just a process of learning that
3:02:35 ‘cause I know 10 folds now what I knew
3:02:38 when the school year first started.
3:02:40 - Absolutely.
3:02:40 - So that it’s all insane.
3:02:42 - What we had is some instances where the teacher
3:02:44 may have had battery on them and didn’t report it
3:02:48 or whatever it was.
3:02:48 So like I was finding that inside of those,
3:02:51 inside the workers comp that some of those
3:02:53 were not lining up with some of the actual
3:02:56 discipline pieces.
3:02:56 So if there’s a way to check these to make sure
3:02:59 they match these, that would be good.
3:03:02 You have something Russ?
3:03:03 - Yeah, I was just gonna add some of this data
3:03:05 is in the student information system.
3:03:06 Some of this data is not in the student information system.
3:03:10 The struggle is DOE is now also starting to build
3:03:13 additional systems for threat assessment, et cetera.
3:03:16 They’re starting to build some outside,
3:03:18 they’re further separating some of this data
3:03:21 which is concerning for districts
3:03:23 because the districts wanna understand
3:03:24 when they say we’re not reporting SESO correctly,
3:03:27 we wanna see the data.
3:03:28 But if they keep separating it and using different systems,
3:03:31 it makes it harder for districts to understand that.
3:03:33 So we are having those conversations
3:03:35 from the technology realm with DOE
3:03:38 but it’s a struggle ‘cause they’re now starting
3:03:41 to make additional systems trying to get the fidelity
3:03:44 that districts don’t have in their SIS systems.
3:03:48 - So what you’re saying is that the DOE
3:03:50 is also creating a variant of extra systems.
3:03:53 - So there’s data points.
3:03:54 - There’s gotta be a way that we look at all the data points
3:03:56 to make sure that they check, how do we do that?
3:03:58 - Right, so what Mrs. Dampere was talking about
3:04:00 is they created a system in Indian River that does all that.
3:04:04 We’re gonna do that now, it just won’t be ready by August.
3:04:07 But with FOCUS, we’ll be able to do much more
3:04:10 than we could with AS-400.
3:04:12 It’s just we gotta get our staff and get ourself together.
3:04:16 - And in the meantime, we can still go and pull
3:04:20 the data sources and manually look at the stuff
3:04:22 if we needed to.
3:04:23 - Yeah, FOCUS has a lot of data for us,
3:04:25 especially in discipline that we didn’t know
3:04:28 we had available to us when we first started using FOCUS.
3:04:31 Russell’s team has done a great job.
3:04:32 - We’re just finishing year one, we’ll get there,
3:04:33 I promise.
3:04:34 - Lots of reports available.
3:04:35 - So if a person, if I have a situation that happens
3:04:38 and I’m a teacher, I input the data into the system,
3:04:41 then under FOCUS, right?
3:04:42 That FOCUS referral goes up to the administrator.
3:04:45 The administrator begins whatever level that is,
3:04:48 whatever implementation that is, and records that.
3:04:51 If it’s a two to, if it’s a 10 day pending,
3:04:54 that then goes out of the school for a review
3:04:58 from somebody from the district, right?
3:05:01 So like our previous one is, is that the principal
3:05:03 would say two to 10 day pending and send it to like 14
3:05:05 or 12 people or something, right?
3:05:07 That’s what the previous one was?
3:05:09 - Yes, sir, they still have to finish writing that.
3:05:11 So that referral is still there.
3:05:12 So they’re still gonna put the action code in there.
3:05:14 They’re still gonna put the OPI in,
3:05:16 so all of that’s still gonna be filled out, so.
3:05:18 - Yep, and then it’s sent to the district for somebody,
3:05:22 and this is where I’m going, is somebody to review
3:05:24 and say this is, this follows like, yes,
3:05:27 we have the legal ability to do that.
3:05:29 Yes, we have no the legal, like where is that going
3:05:33 for that decision to be made?
3:05:34 Is that the org chart that we’re gonna find out?
3:05:36 - Right, it’s gonna go into the chief of schools.
3:05:40 - Okay, area, okay.
3:05:43 So we’ll have somebody that’s gonna be reviewing
3:05:44 those two to 10 day pending, got it, okay.
3:05:47 That’s all, ‘cause that was part of the problem we had was
3:05:50 is it would be sent to those multiple people,
3:05:53 and then it was kind of just like, right, okay.
3:05:56 All right, does anybody have anything on data?
3:05:58 - Yeah, I just, I wanna add to that
3:06:01 and expand upon one of the things that you said.
3:06:03 Not at the end, that was a different string,
3:06:05 but part of the issue with the data
3:06:08 wasn’t that it wasn’t accessible.
3:06:10 It was that our staff was hesitant to pull the data
3:06:13 because it was a new program,
3:06:16 and our staff wasn’t yet using it efficiently
3:06:18 and effectively and they knew that.
3:06:21 And so they knew if they pulled that data for you,
3:06:23 it would be deflated, and so it wouldn’t be useful data.
3:06:26 You can’t make decisions off of it
3:06:27 when you know it’s not accurate
3:06:29 if teachers weren’t reporting their referrals
3:06:30 or incidences in focus.
3:06:32 And so it’s been a year since I’ve heard that response,
3:06:37 and so I know that people have now been trained on it
3:06:39 and they’re using it more consistently.
3:06:41 And then administrators, when they interact in focus
3:06:43 to that referral or incident,
3:06:46 the teacher automatically sees that the administrator
3:06:49 has been interacting with it, correct?
3:06:51 ‘Cause that wasn’t happening out there, okay.
3:06:53 - So part of– - There was no feedback.
3:06:54 - And I would be careful because every single referral,
3:06:58 whether it was being used in focus
3:06:59 or whether it was AS-400, is supposed to be recorded.
3:07:02 And that’s the recordings that I was requesting.
3:07:05 So it’s not that staff didn’t have
3:07:07 a legitimate recording process.
3:07:10 I was requesting data points from everywhere,
3:07:13 from Cesser to make sure that Cesser backed up
3:07:15 if it was in workers’ comp and if it was backed up
3:07:18 into Title IX and if it was backed up into our,
3:07:21 those all should match.
3:07:23 And what was happening is is that due to not data
3:07:27 not being implemented correctly but some other components,
3:07:31 we needed to make sure that they’re under one house.
3:07:33 And that’s what RSM and I were working on was is,
3:07:36 look, we have all these data points.
3:07:38 They’re not all linking up.
3:07:40 We need to have somebody in-house
3:07:41 in the centralized group to do that.
3:07:42 So I appreciate you guys doing that.
3:07:45 I appreciate you guys moving forward with that,
3:07:46 Dr. Rendell, on your, I think somebody needs to make sure
3:07:50 that all of the data points are matching.
3:07:52 All right, now, the next thing is is that
3:07:55 we had the offense matrix, we just did that.
3:07:59 Did we feel comfortable with the discipline committee?
3:08:03 We did that.
3:08:04 We had an issue with parents trespassing on buses,
3:08:08 violence in front of the front office,
3:08:10 general behaviors on school grounds.
3:08:12 We have no issue implementing, Mr. Gibbs,
3:08:15 you may wanna enter in here.
3:08:17 One of the issues we had was is we had school bus drivers
3:08:20 that were driving.
3:08:21 All of a sudden, a parent or a citizen would get on the bus,
3:08:24 tell kids to get off.
3:08:26 Then the police would show up
3:08:28 and the police would not even arrest
3:08:30 the person that was on there.
3:08:32 So it was not so much the bus driver
3:08:34 who was just completely distraught.
3:08:36 It was communications back to our SROs
3:08:39 over making sure that the law enforcement agencies knew
3:08:43 that if behavior like that occurred,
3:08:45 that they have the right to trespass and arrest
3:08:48 for entering, and we needed to get that to them
3:08:51 to tell them that.
3:08:52 There were so many instances that came up,
3:08:54 videos over and over again,
3:08:56 and if you need ‘em, just ask transportation,
3:08:58 where they were entering our buses
3:09:00 and they were entering.
3:09:00 The other piece is is that there were situations
3:09:03 where the car loop, where parent, teachers,
3:09:06 there’s things that are happening inside the car loop,
3:09:08 engagements, parents coming up and then violently,
3:09:12 you know what I mean, saying things.
3:09:13 There’s people coming into our front offices.
3:09:15 We just need to be able to communicate
3:09:17 to our law enforcement agencies
3:09:18 that this is inappropriate behavior,
3:09:20 send in our staff to call law enforcement to make sure,
3:09:23 and that our bus drivers know,
3:09:24 you get somebody on there that is doing that.
3:09:26 They need to go to jail.
3:09:27 That’s the kind of stuff
3:09:28 that I wanted to kind of talk to you guys about.
3:09:30 If you guys can give me– - Hey, Mr. Assistant,
3:09:31 these are our problem,
3:09:33 but I think that’s outside the scope of this conversation.
3:09:35 - No, this is discipline. - I think it’s actually
3:09:36 outside the scope of student services
3:09:39 because you’re talking about parent behavior.
3:09:41 We’re talking about the big people.
3:09:42 That, we need to be talking to this guy back here.
3:09:45 - It’s part of the issue that we had
3:09:47 when we were relating to the discipline component.
3:09:50 So if that’s not you guys,
3:09:51 if it’s not your job to communicate to our bus drivers
3:09:54 and our staff that this type of behavior’s bad,
3:09:57 then point me to the right.
3:09:58 What would that be?
3:10:01 - So we had this conversation previously
3:10:04 and Major Neil had addressed this concern already
3:10:08 saying it’s absolutely trespassing.
3:10:10 And I believe Mr. Roon, correct me if we’re wrong here.
3:10:14 I don’t remember who was sitting
3:10:15 in the superintendency at the time,
3:10:17 but I believe we did send out communication
3:10:20 to reiterate to administrators,
3:10:22 front office staff, and bus drivers
3:10:24 that they absolutely have the right to trespass
3:10:27 and that their safety is number one.
3:10:29 - And afterwards, it kept happening.
3:10:30 So I just– - So I think
3:10:31 one of the problems that we had though
3:10:32 was that there’s different municipalities
3:10:34 and we didn’t have the MOU in place
3:10:36 with some of our municipalities.
3:10:37 Am I incorrect?
3:10:38 I think that is correct.
3:10:39 So we’re cleaning all that up.
3:10:41 Major Neil was fixing that.
3:10:42 And I think now our messaging should be uniform.
3:10:46 - This doesn’t have anything to do with the municipalities.
3:10:48 This was, Major Neil made it clear,
3:10:51 we need to reiterate it to our staff
3:10:52 that they have the right to do that.
3:10:54 If the staff didn’t necessarily know
3:10:56 or feel comfortable enacting a trespass,
3:10:59 they have to initiate it.
3:11:00 The law enforcement officer can’t trespass somebody
3:11:02 unless the person on campus says
3:11:04 those words, and so we have to teach our staff
3:11:06 that that’s what they’re allowed to do.
3:11:07 - So let’s do this.
3:11:09 Do we have it, just hang on.
3:11:11 Do we have it inside of our training for our staff
3:11:14 that they know in parent and citizen engagement
3:11:18 that is acting inappropriate what to do?
3:11:20 Is that part of your training
3:11:22 or is that part of the district security’s training?
3:11:26 - Yeah, I don’t think it’s part
3:11:26 of student services training.
3:11:27 I think that might be something we need to make sure
3:11:29 that administrators, building level administrators
3:11:31 are aware of, also transportation.
3:11:34 We need to make sure the bus drivers are aware,
3:11:36 and we just need to keep working with law enforcement
3:11:38 to make sure they know
3:11:39 that we’re gonna pursue stuff like that.
3:11:42 - ‘Cause one of the problems we had was
3:11:43 is that the bus drivers were saying we didn’t know
3:11:45 that in some cases we were allowed to.
3:11:47 I just didn’t know who needed to make that part
3:11:49 of the training so that we can do that.
3:11:51 We also had staff and administrators
3:11:54 who didn’t know that if a person comes in
3:11:56 and does that in the front office
3:11:57 that you can have them trespassed to.
3:12:00 The other thing is is that ISS at each school,
3:12:02 Miss Megan Wright, Miss Wright brought it up earlier.
3:12:05 What are we doing as far as setting a standard
3:12:07 of ISS and allowing each school to be able to do that?
3:12:10 Is that part of this plan?
3:12:11 Do you need direction from the school board?
3:12:12 Because I think there is a overwhelming support
3:12:15 for putting ISS, giving the availability at each school
3:12:20 and making it uniform in some kind.
3:12:22 Is that something we would do, Dr. Rendell?
3:12:24 - Yeah, we would need direction from the board on that.
3:12:26 I mean, that is a cost.
3:12:28 We would have to devote a teaching unit to,
3:12:31 the secondary schools for sure,
3:12:33 you’d have to devote a teaching unit to that
3:12:35 and teaching unit in an extra planning period
3:12:38 ‘cause that teacher then would need a planning period.
3:12:41 So that’s a cost.
3:12:41 We can work up the cost for that.
3:12:43 Also, we’ll survey the secondary principals
3:12:45 and the elementary principals to see
3:12:47 if that’s a tool they want at their disposal.
3:12:50 - Sure.
3:12:51 - There are some schools that might not want that as a tool.
3:12:55 They may not have the need for it as much as other schools.
3:12:58 - And I would agree with that.
3:12:59 I just didn’t want it to where
3:13:01 they would not be able to move forward
3:13:03 and didn’t have the resources to implement that.
3:13:05 And I think there’s innovative ways
3:13:07 that we might be able to do it
3:13:08 rather than just having a staff member there the whole time.
3:13:10 You know what I mean?
3:13:11 There’s, ‘cause you know that ISS
3:13:14 may be one or two kids at each school
3:13:16 and there might be an innovative way
3:13:17 to bring those kids to a different location.
3:13:19 I don’t know.
3:13:20 Like if it’s okay with you,
3:13:22 the board says that we would like to find
3:13:23 some sort of solution there
3:13:25 if you guys can kind of put that together.
3:13:27 Are we okay with that?
3:13:28 - As long as that’s board corporate.
3:13:29 - Yeah, I mean, the schools are creatively,
3:13:33 in secondary schools, some of them are creatively funding
3:13:35 that with different allocations.
3:13:37 And it also has to do with space.
3:13:40 Every school is a different situation
3:13:42 as far as what space they have.
3:13:43 And so some of them, and so when you think about elementary,
3:13:47 some of them don’t need a whole entire classroom.
3:13:49 You know, they just need a little sub office or whatever.
3:13:52 So I hate for us to sit down and go,
3:13:54 here’s the parameters, everybody’s gonna do it like this.
3:13:56 I think we need to opt for the flexibility,
3:13:58 but I don’t think we need to,
3:14:00 I mean, I don’t have a problem with schools.
3:14:02 I’ve, you know, having that tool in their tool belt,
3:14:06 but it’s gonna be bigger than just,
3:14:08 I don’t know what direction we can give you today.
3:14:10 We’re gonna have to have more information.
3:14:14 - I think in looking at it, it’s like this.
3:14:16 You have some schools that I know for a fact
3:14:18 are implementing ISS in a very effective way.
3:14:22 They are to the point where they were communicated
3:14:25 through some of the other principals.
3:14:27 And I had some other principals that said,
3:14:28 we would love to do that,
3:14:30 but we may not have the resources.
3:14:31 So if there’s a way to find out if there’s schools
3:14:33 that need resources and find best practices to do so,
3:14:36 I think that this board would like to see that, that’s all.
3:14:38 - I’m a huge fan of the in-school suspension
3:14:41 as opposed to the out-of-school suspension.
3:14:42 I think that that’s a great tool
3:14:44 that we should make accessible
3:14:45 to all of our schools, honestly.
3:14:46 So I realize that there’s a cost with it.
3:14:48 So I guess what we would probably,
3:14:50 what I would like to see is what does that cost
3:14:52 and how many of our schools would wanna really participate
3:14:54 in this and need additional funding for it,
3:14:57 or if it’s feasible or not.
3:14:58 Some schools don’t have the space, as you were saying.
3:15:01 So we would need to gather all that information
3:15:04 before we kind of went forward and said,
3:15:05 hey, go forward and do this kind of thing.
3:15:09 - And then, and I agree with you 100%,
3:15:10 are we okay with giving that direction,
3:15:12 that in the event that there’s best practices we share
3:15:15 and if there’s a school that would like resources,
3:15:18 we try to find out what that cost is
3:15:19 and bring it back to the board.
3:15:20 Is that effective?
3:15:22 - I’m fine with that.
3:15:23 I like the in-school suspension.
3:15:24 - Let staff tackle it.
3:15:25 - Yep, that’s what we’re saying,
3:15:26 if you’re okay with having staff move in in that direction.
3:15:30 Okay?
3:15:31 - Understood.
3:15:31 - Yep, yeah.
3:15:33 The other thing is, is that we spoke about this earlier,
3:15:35 doing staff, bus drivers, student trainings,
3:15:38 those kind of things like, hey, what’s the game plan?
3:15:41 So like, kids come back, and I know you’ve made,
3:15:44 I mean, you just took over like two weeks ago, right?
3:15:45 But like, what are the teachers,
3:15:48 what kind of training are we gonna get,
3:15:49 what kind of staff are the bus drivers,
3:15:50 and then what are we looking at
3:15:51 for when the students and parents come on campus
3:15:54 for the first time, what is that?
3:15:55 You know what I mean?
3:15:56 Do we have a plan, are we working on that?
3:15:57 What’s going on?
3:15:58 - Our opening plan.
3:16:00 We needed direction as to today.
3:16:03 Now we know what we’re gonna bring back to the board in July
3:16:08 and we will have a plan outlined.
3:16:10 - I wanna say staff did an amazing job
3:16:13 with the cell phone rollout, right?
3:16:15 To communicate, to say all those things.
3:16:16 So that’s what I think effectively we were looking at
3:16:20 to communicate all of our future disciplines
3:16:24 and stuff like that.
3:16:25 So if that’s okay, and these are ideas
3:16:27 that I’m just putting on the table,
3:16:28 but if that’s okay with you,
3:16:30 I would like to see sort of a effective plan of action
3:16:34 for implementing the trainings and stuff like that
3:16:37 and what that would look like for our staff.
3:16:38 Because one of the problems they kept saying is,
3:16:40 our bus drivers need trainings,
3:16:42 our bus drivers need trainings and we just didn’t have them.
3:16:44 And now that we’re bringing like,
3:16:45 we got like 66 new applicants,
3:16:47 we’re gonna need to do some training, right?
3:16:48 So I think that in that case,
3:16:50 I think that some sort of plan of action sometime
3:16:52 before we open would be good.
3:16:53 That’s all.
3:16:56 - Absolutely.
3:16:57 The communication that was done in regards to the cell phone
3:17:00 that was tremendous and that really hit home.
3:17:02 Everyone got the message.
3:17:04 The same message was conveyed over and over and over again.
3:17:06 And I think that type of messaging is very good
3:17:08 for our district to create a sense of,
3:17:13 wear uniform across the board.
3:17:14 So it wasn’t different from school to school, so yeah.
3:17:17 - And then the last piece is,
3:17:18 is that discipline process that I spoke of before,
3:17:22 having some sort of a plan of action,
3:17:24 which you said will come out
3:17:25 from the Office of Safe Schools.
3:17:27 Tied to that is what I think Ms. Jenkins
3:17:31 really is passionate about and I feel the same way,
3:17:34 is that yes, the identification process
3:17:36 seemed to be some sort of a discipline nightmare,
3:17:40 meaning student needs to be identified
3:17:42 for their discipline or their ESC services.
3:17:45 They’re not getting the correct identification
3:17:48 of those services that are needed
3:17:49 and they continue to have incidences
3:17:53 where they are implementing a negative discipline
3:17:55 that is towards their manifestation,
3:17:59 but they hadn’t gotten there.
3:18:00 Does that make sense to you?
3:18:02 Like our young kids who may have needs
3:18:05 as far as autism and on the spectrum
3:18:10 and all of these other components that need the services
3:18:12 are not getting those implementations,
3:18:15 those identifications of their services
3:18:18 in a fast enough time.
3:18:19 Like we have kids that are just going through
3:18:22 a long time period and not being identified.
3:18:24 Is there a plan to shorten that up or anything like that?
3:18:28 - Can I jump in there?
3:18:29 - Go for it, Ms. Jenkins.
3:18:31 - That is a loaded question and there’s no fixing that.
3:18:35 That’s not a magic wand fix.
3:18:37 That is a community awareness problem.
3:18:41 That is a ESC certified teacher problem.
3:18:44 That’s ESC staff staffing vacancy problem.
3:18:48 It’s absolutely a concern,
3:18:50 but it’s basically impossible to address at this point.
3:18:54 It’s something to always be aware of and to strive towards,
3:18:57 but one of the most significant problems in our schools
3:19:00 is that we don’t have enough ESC staff
3:19:02 to make that process go faster.
3:19:05 And so number one, step one,
3:19:06 would be recruiting ESC professionals to this district
3:19:10 to ensure that they have functioning MTSS teams
3:19:13 ‘cause that’s really where the difficulty lies.
3:19:15 Unfortunately, most of those constraints
3:19:16 that slow the wheel of progress are policy
3:19:21 and statutory requirements and things of that nature
3:19:23 and there’s really no circumventing that pause,
3:19:26 unfortunately.
3:19:27 - Okay, so it sounds like there’s an opportunity
3:19:30 to improve the process by finding if we need to have more
3:19:34 of the ESC individuals to do that.
3:19:39 There’s also, I met with some teams in Orlando
3:19:42 that were talking about how they do it
3:19:44 and they said that if they did it this way,
3:19:45 which is the normal way that they go through the process,
3:19:47 it takes months and months and months.
3:19:49 If they do it this way, that it took like two weeks.
3:19:51 So I’d love to just sit down with you
3:19:53 and go through that process to see how they’re doing it
3:19:55 so that we might be able to do it to fidelity
3:19:57 because it’ll help our children get identified
3:19:59 for the services that they need ahead of time to get moving.
3:20:02 That’s all.
3:20:02 - Okay, what district is that again?
3:20:04 - It was Orange County.
3:20:04 It was in Orange County, there was a couple of them.
3:20:06 So I’ll be over there and I’ll–
3:20:08 - Yeah, my daughter’s there too, so thank you.
3:20:10 - Okay, all right.
3:20:11 I’ll bring the facility and everything else
3:20:14 and the individuals involved.
3:20:15 So I just wanted, those were some of the issues
3:20:17 that I just, look, they were on my table,
3:20:19 the data collection, the ISS, we’re moving.
3:20:23 I know and I really appreciate you guys.
3:20:24 I know that this is just like a whirlwind,
3:20:26 you’re drinking through a fire hose,
3:20:28 everything’s happening so fast.
3:20:29 But I know that there’s an impending opening of schools
3:20:32 and we’ve got to be able to have something ready
3:20:33 for them for trainings and everything else.
3:20:35 So I really appreciate it.
3:20:37 I’ll leave the floor open to anybody else
3:20:38 in the issues they may have
3:20:39 that they want to discuss with discipline.
3:20:41 - We have another presentation.
3:20:43 - Yeah, we do.
3:20:44 - I know, I know, but we’re on discipline right now.
3:20:45 Just finishing up discipline.
3:20:46 - Well, I know, but I mean, they’ve tackled a lot
3:20:48 in this one meeting today.
3:20:49 I’d kind of like to let Ms. Dampier and her team
3:20:51 get some, have some more time to,
3:20:53 before we lay anything else on their plate.
3:20:56 - So are you guys okay?
3:20:57 - Yeah, I’m good, thank you guys so much.
3:20:59 - All right, now.
3:21:03 Let’s see, I ran out of room.
3:21:06 I was writing off down to multiple pages.
3:21:08 The next topic, thank you, everyone.
3:21:10 The next topic is the organizational structure.
3:21:27 - Oh, ‘cause it’s in.
3:21:28 - Which one?
3:21:29 - I don’t know.
3:21:31 It just normally doesn’t do that.
3:21:32 Normally, it just opens it up.
3:21:34 - Thank you.
3:21:35 - Okay.
3:21:39 - All right, so the board may recall
3:21:41 that during the interview process,
3:21:43 one of the things I said I was gonna examine
3:21:45 was our organizational structure
3:21:46 to see if there were some changes that needed to be made.
3:21:49 And after I was selected,
3:21:51 I said that I was gonna go do that.
3:21:53 Talked about it a little bit at the offsite
3:21:54 a couple weeks ago that gathered a lot of information,
3:21:57 looked at a lot of things,
3:21:58 and so I was gonna be making some recommended changes
3:22:01 to the organizational structure.
3:22:03 So here are four areas,
3:22:06 four places where I got a lot of the information.
3:22:09 This aren’t the only four things
3:22:10 that I took into consideration,
3:22:11 but the first was the RSM Discipline Audit.
3:22:14 There were a lot of findings in there
3:22:15 that talked about duplication of effort,
3:22:18 a lot of people having pieces of discipline,
3:22:21 but nobody really owning discipline.
3:22:23 There was a lot of work that was
3:22:27 not consistent across the district.
3:22:29 They didn’t necessarily recommend
3:22:32 any changes to our policies,
3:22:33 our code of conduct or anything like that.
3:22:35 They said we need to be more consistent
3:22:37 in the enforcement of those policies across the district.
3:22:40 They saw a lot of inconsistencies and some mistakes.
3:22:44 And then they also mentioned,
3:22:46 since no one owns discipline,
3:22:48 one of their recommendations was a cabinet-level person
3:22:51 that would kind of be a disciplined czar.
3:22:53 They didn’t call it that, but something like that.
3:22:55 So that’s part of the organizational structure changes.
3:22:59 The other is the paper put together by Dr. Cody,
3:23:03 her assessment, her recommendations,
3:23:05 her observations in the time that she was here.
3:23:08 Some of it was curriculum-related,
3:23:10 some of it was operational-related.
3:23:12 A lot of it talked about restructuring.
3:23:15 Again, the discipline was mentioned.
3:23:17 Also, in a lot of other districts,
3:23:20 there were principal supervisors,
3:23:22 and she saw that in our district,
3:23:24 we had principal supervisors
3:23:26 who also had other curriculum responsibilities.
3:23:29 And she recommended in her assessment
3:23:31 that we go back to a different model.
3:23:33 Also, she talked about curriculum and instruction,
3:23:36 your chief academic officer overseeing those three.
3:23:39 She talked about in her assessment two or three times,
3:23:42 she made reference to three areas
3:23:44 that really affect student achievement.
3:23:46 It’s elementary learning,
3:23:48 secondary learning, and student services.
3:23:49 And those three were kind of operating independently
3:23:52 or not in concert.
3:23:54 And so if there was a chief academic officer
3:23:57 or something like that would oversee those departments,
3:24:00 in her experience, her recommendation was,
3:24:02 that would be a better way to go.
3:24:04 Also, started those one-on-one conversations
3:24:06 with different staff, building-level principals,
3:24:09 also district-level leaders here in the district,
3:24:12 and other staff members.
3:24:14 And a lot of that feedback backed up
3:24:18 what was reported by Dr. Cody and the Discipline Audit.
3:24:23 And then also, my experience for serving
3:24:25 as a principal in the last four years here in the district,
3:24:28 but also my experience being in the district here
3:24:29 in the past under a different organizational structure,
3:24:32 and also working in several other districts.
3:24:35 So these were some of the themes that I kind of saw
3:24:40 in my analysis and talking to everybody else,
3:24:43 reviewing, there was overlapping responsibilities.
3:24:45 Discipline was one of them, but also curriculum.
3:24:48 There were some things that, well, I do a little bit of this
3:24:50 or I do a little bit of that, well, we do some of this,
3:24:52 we do some of that.
3:24:53 Two things that are clear examples is the discipline.
3:24:56 We didn’t have a single person owning the discipline
3:24:59 or a single department necessarily owning the discipline.
3:25:02 The other one was a good example was federal programs.
3:25:05 We’ve talked a lot,
3:25:06 you’ve seen a lot of budget presentations now,
3:25:08 we talked about it just a little while ago,
3:25:10 that we have federal program money
3:25:13 in a lot of different places, which is fine,
3:25:16 and we’re doing a lot of great things
3:25:17 with all this different federal program money,
3:25:19 but there’s really nobody that has their eye on the ball
3:25:23 of all the federal program money.
3:25:26 There was a meeting that was called by Dr. Cody
3:25:30 of the different people
3:25:31 who have federal program spending authority, so to speak,
3:25:35 that have programs that are funded with federal funds,
3:25:38 and she said that in the meeting,
3:25:41 it was apparent that a lot of people didn’t know
3:25:44 what the other people were doing with the federal money.
3:25:48 So there were some overlapping ideas and spent,
3:25:51 we’re doing a little bit of this
3:25:52 and we’re doing a little bit of that.
3:25:53 I’ve talked to several people
3:25:54 that were in that room that day,
3:25:56 and they said it was one of the best meetings
3:25:57 they ever went to ‘cause they learned so much more
3:25:58 about what other people were doing in the district
3:26:01 and a lot of duplicating efforts.
3:26:03 And so we’re using federal money
3:26:04 to do some of the same things.
3:26:06 So we need to kinda combine all that
3:26:08 and put it all in one house.
3:26:10 One of the biggest things that I noticed
3:26:12 was the support and supervision of schools.
3:26:13 It’s something I noticed in St. Lucie County years ago
3:26:16 when I was there as a deputy.
3:26:17 I had been promoted to assistant superintendent,
3:26:19 I had some schools to supervise, but I also had stuff
3:26:22 to oversee.
3:26:24 And doing some research and looking at other districts,
3:26:26 we saw that there was a better way to do that.
3:26:29 Principal supervisors really should
3:26:30 just be supervising principals.
3:26:31 That should be their sole responsibility.
3:26:33 They shouldn’t have all these other responsibilities.
3:26:35 There’s actually research out there.
3:26:37 Hillsborough County was one of the first districts
3:26:38 to move to this in Florida, and they still do it today.
3:26:41 And we put a model in place in St. Lucie
3:26:43 that’s still there today where these directors,
3:26:47 area superintendents or area directors, area coordinators,
3:26:50 in St. Lucie we call them executive directors of schools.
3:26:52 All they do is supervise schools.
3:26:54 The research shows that for them to be really effective,
3:26:57 the magic number is 14.
3:26:59 14 schools for them to supervise.
3:27:01 If they’re in their schools, often supervising
3:27:03 their schools, then they’re also checking in
3:27:05 with their schools.
3:27:06 It’s not a supervision or a gotcha.
3:27:08 It’s more like, hey, how can I support you?
3:27:10 If they’re in the schools on a regular basis,
3:27:12 they know what’s going on in the schools.
3:27:13 They know what’s working, what’s not working.
3:27:15 The principals have frequent, consistent dialogue
3:27:19 with their supervisor, and that provides big dividends
3:27:23 down the road when you’re trying to support a school.
3:27:26 So those were some things that I saw that we didn’t have.
3:27:29 So my solution was to realign some different things,
3:27:33 change some structures, redefine who oversees what.
3:27:38 We had leading and learning, and I wanted to separate
3:27:42 leadership from learning or leadership from curriculum.
3:27:46 So we would have directors that oversee departments,
3:27:50 not schools, and directors that would supervise schools
3:27:53 underneath those umbrellas.
3:27:54 So the example is, looking at our current cabinet,
3:27:59 we had two positions, assistant superintendent
3:28:01 for elementary leading and learning,
3:28:03 and assistant superintendent
3:28:04 for secondary leading and learning.
3:28:06 And it’s really the positions that I’m talking about
3:28:09 is divesting, separating, leading from learning.
3:28:13 So my change is to eliminate the assistant superintendent
3:28:18 of elementary leading and learning position,
3:28:21 and the assistant superintendent
3:28:21 for secondary leading and learning position,
3:28:23 and replace those two positions with a chief of schools
3:28:26 and an assistant superintendent of curriculum instruction.
3:28:29 Chief of schools is very similar to a deputy superintendent,
3:28:32 or we used to have three area superintendents at one time.
3:28:36 We had four area superintendents, so very similar to that.
3:28:39 So the chief of schools is someone who would oversee
3:28:41 those directors who oversee schools.
3:28:43 That would be their primary responsibility,
3:28:46 that would be their area of work.
3:28:50 The assistant superintendent of curriculum instruction
3:28:52 would oversee all of learning.
3:28:54 So the chief of schools oversees leading,
3:28:56 the assistant superintendent of curriculum instruction
3:28:58 oversees learning.
3:28:59 We used to have that position in this district in the past,
3:29:02 assistant superintendent of curriculum instruction
3:29:04 was a longtime cabinet position here for many years,
3:29:08 and they would oversee the different curriculum departments
3:29:11 like we talked about, student services,
3:29:14 elementary learning, and secondary learning.
3:29:17 So if you look at the chief of schools,
3:29:22 my plan is to have the chief of schools
3:29:25 and then these six directors.
3:29:30 So they would be by geography and by grade level.
3:29:33 So as you can see, there would be an area director
3:29:36 in the north, the far north, so to speak,
3:29:39 for elementary schools,
3:29:40 an area director over north central elementary schools,
3:29:44 an area director south central,
3:29:45 and an area director of south elementary schools.
3:29:47 So this would encompass,
3:29:49 this would cover all of our elementary schools.
3:29:51 Each director would have between 14 and 15 schools,
3:29:54 which again, supports the literature and research.
3:29:58 And then for secondary schools,
3:30:01 we’d have an area director of the north,
3:30:03 an area director of the south.
3:30:05 Right now the breakdown I have of these schools
3:30:07 is basically north of the Pineda
3:30:08 and south of the Pineda for the different breakdowns.
3:30:10 There’s a couple nuances with the elementaries
3:30:14 that they don’t all line up quite like that,
3:30:16 but that’s kind of the breakdown.
3:30:19 And then director of alternative sites.
3:30:20 So Mrs. Bland, who’s just here,
3:30:23 she’s director of alternative sites and discipline.
3:30:26 We would be divesting the discipline responsibilities,
3:30:29 taking those off of her plate,
3:30:30 and she would just be supervising
3:30:33 the two alternative schools.
3:30:34 All right, so that would be–
3:30:36 - And the off site. - And the off site.
3:30:38 She reminds me that it’s not just
3:30:40 the two alternative schools,
3:30:40 it’s a bunch of other stuff.
3:30:42 But the idea is that all these directors,
3:30:45 their primary responsibility
3:30:46 would be to serve their schools.
3:30:48 They would be required to be in their schools
3:30:50 once every month.
3:30:52 When we put this in place in St. Lucie,
3:30:53 we followed them all at Hillsborough U’s,
3:30:55 where the directors didn’t just show up and say,
3:30:58 “Hi, I’m here, what’s going on?
3:30:59 “Is everything good?
3:31:00 “What can you tell me?”
3:31:02 You know, they have a checklist, a list of data points
3:31:05 that they would review with the principals,
3:31:07 also some guiding questions that they would ask
3:31:09 every time they were there.
3:31:11 Each month, they might have a different data point
3:31:13 to go a little deeper into.
3:31:14 So example, after PM1, after progress monitoring one,
3:31:18 assessment’s done, when they visit the next month,
3:31:21 they would sit down with the principal and say,
3:31:22 “Let’s look at your PM1 results.
3:31:23 “What do they look like compared to last year?
3:31:25 “Where are your hotspots?
3:31:26 “Where can we help you?
3:31:27 “Do you need support from curriculum instruction?
3:31:29 “Let me reach out to curriculum instruction.
3:31:31 “How are you doing with your new teachers?”
3:31:32 That kind of thing.
3:31:33 So I’ve seen this work in the past.
3:31:36 It’s very effective for principal support.
3:31:39 You guys have noticed that we’ve been appointing
3:31:41 a lot of new principals and assistant principals.
3:31:44 They need as much support as they can get.
3:31:46 This person would be there to support them
3:31:49 at least once a month on a regular basis.
3:31:51 That’s why I think this is a great investment.
3:31:54 So now the stuff, the departments, the curriculum stuff
3:31:59 that our director’s kind of overseeing now
3:32:02 in addition to supervising schools,
3:32:04 this would all fall under the assistant superintendent
3:32:05 curriculum and instruction.
3:32:06 This is very similar to the breakdown
3:32:09 that was in place in this district years ago.
3:32:12 So you had an assistant superintendent for CNI.
3:32:15 You have a director of elementary programs,
3:32:16 a director of secondary programs.
3:32:18 I talked about bringing all those federal programs
3:32:20 into one place.
3:32:21 This would be a director of federal programs position.
3:32:24 This person would oversee
3:32:24 all those different federal spending buckets.
3:32:27 We have a director of choice programs,
3:32:29 but she also supervises 11 schools.
3:32:31 By making this a pure director position,
3:32:34 she would handle all of our choice programs,
3:32:36 including all of the implications of HB1
3:32:41 and all the processes that we now have to go through
3:32:43 with people filing for different buckets of money
3:32:46 and that kind of stuff.
3:32:48 Director of accountability testing and evaluation,
3:32:50 we kind of have that now,
3:32:51 but we’d probably move some more people in and under that,
3:32:53 like John Carr might end up in there
3:32:55 because he’s our big analyst and that kind of thing.
3:32:59 Director of adult and community education,
3:33:00 we already have that
3:33:01 and director of career and technical education,
3:33:02 we already have that.
3:33:04 That’s 14 directors.
3:33:05 At first you might say, wait a minute, we only have,
3:33:07 if you counted, there are 13 directors
3:33:10 between secondary and elementary,
3:33:13 but keep in mind that Ms. Bland was over in student services
3:33:17 and she’s one of the 14.
3:33:18 So all of this restructuring is meant to be budget neutral.
3:33:23 We’re not supposed to be creating new positions
3:33:26 without replacing current positions,
3:33:29 rewriting some job descriptions and that kind of thing.
3:33:31 So,
3:33:35 directors that oversee schools
3:33:37 and a chief of schools that oversees the directors
3:33:39 and the operation of those schools.
3:33:43 Then the curriculum side of the house,
3:33:45 the assistant superintendent for curriculum and instruction
3:33:47 and the directors that would be responsible
3:33:49 for the different buckets.
3:33:51 So what does that look like visually?
3:33:52 This is our current organizational chart
3:33:54 with the cabinet positions.
3:33:56 As you can see, there are nine cabinet positions.
3:33:58 They’re all there, positions that show familiar.
3:34:04 And so the recommended changes
3:34:06 is we’d be to eliminate these two positions,
3:34:09 the assistant superintendent of elementary
3:34:10 leading and learning,
3:34:11 assistant superintendent of secondary leading and learning,
3:34:13 and then replace those with a chief of schools
3:34:16 and an assistant superintendent of curriculum instruction.
3:34:18 So the number of cabinet positions does not change.
3:34:21 So budget neutral in that effect.
3:34:24 Taking a look at how it looks further down the line,
3:34:27 just like the slide a minute ago,
3:34:29 now this chief of schools,
3:34:31 they would oversee seven directors,
3:34:33 four over elementary schools, two over secondary schools,
3:34:35 and then director of alternative sites.
3:34:38 Again, theoretically, budget neutral
3:34:41 as far as the positions.
3:34:42 Okay, and then the next would be
3:34:45 the assistant superintendent of curriculum instruction.
3:34:49 Just like the slide earlier, these seven directors
3:34:52 overseeing different things.
3:34:54 Now, theoretically, budget neutral for sure.
3:34:57 This will require some shifting of people and places.
3:35:02 I want the area directors to be able
3:35:03 to supervise geography.
3:35:05 So eventually, maybe not this year,
3:35:07 but down the road, we might have area offices again,
3:35:10 where that north secondary director
3:35:14 and that north elementary director
3:35:15 may share some space, a place in the north end,
3:35:19 or they might set up shop in an elementary school
3:35:22 and a secondary school that has space
3:35:24 so that they could be near their school
3:35:25 so when they’re visiting their schools,
3:35:27 they can visit more of them more frequently,
3:35:29 that kind of thing.
3:35:30 So budget neutral in terms of salary
3:35:33 and all that kind of thing,
3:35:33 but when I start moving people around in different places,
3:35:37 there might be costs associated with that.
3:35:39 But we’re paying costs for them to be housed here right now.
3:35:42 So again, this is what the organizational chart
3:35:44 would look like with these new positions,
3:35:48 replacing the two previous positions.
3:35:51 And that’s about it.
3:35:56 - Take any comments from the rest of the board members?
3:35:59 - Can go to, I always start with you, Ms. Campbell,
3:36:02 so maybe we’ll just go over to Mr. Trent,
3:36:06 if you’d like to have anything to say.
3:36:10 - Well, thank you for all the,
3:36:12 I know the effort and the thought.
3:36:16 We knew what we were getting into
3:36:17 and we had all the candidates up
3:36:20 and what they would do if they were fortunate enough
3:36:22 to be in this position.
3:36:23 So we hire because of experience
3:36:29 and I’m excited to see how this plays out.
3:36:34 Again, we’re the what and you’re the how.
3:36:37 And again, I look forward to seeing
3:36:40 how this plays out here in Brevard.
3:36:43 - Ms. Jenkins, did you have something to say?
3:36:48 Okay, all right, Ms. Campbell.
3:36:50 - Yeah, so I think, thank you for going,
3:36:53 walking through the specifics of the plan.
3:36:56 I actually, one of the things you talked about
3:36:59 how it used to be and I know it’s not,
3:37:02 the Chief of School’s a little different
3:37:03 ‘cause we had those area superintendents,
3:37:04 but one of the things that came out in discipline years ago
3:37:07 was that there was some inconsistency,
3:37:10 like what we’re dealing with now,
3:37:11 but in a different way between maybe
3:37:12 how certain areas we’re handling it.
3:37:14 So I actually like the Chief of Schools
3:37:16 because there is that one person
3:37:18 that will help there to be that consistency
3:37:20 from the north to the south.
3:37:22 I think that’s a better, even better
3:37:24 than what we have the area superintendents.
3:37:27 So I think that will be good.
3:37:30 One thought, just when you were talking
3:37:33 about the potential in the future
3:37:36 to create offices for the people,
3:37:37 I mean, we’ll kind of have to see how it goes
3:37:39 because they also each have administrative assistants
3:37:41 because of all the things that they,
3:37:42 and some of them may need to share
3:37:44 or they currently share with other people,
3:37:46 but we have that remote work policy that we just passed
3:37:48 and that’s also an option depending on where they are
3:37:52 so that if they’re visiting two schools
3:37:55 and it wouldn’t be a cost-effective
3:37:56 for them to come all the way back to Vera in between
3:37:59 and they can do a couple hours of work at home
3:38:01 because we’re allowing that remote work option,
3:38:04 whether they’re at home or at a school or wherever.
3:38:07 I mean, I think that gives some flexibility
3:38:09 to those types of jobs.
3:38:11 I can’t remember if we put directors on those lists,
3:38:14 but I think it would probably fit.
3:38:16 - Totally hadn’t thought of that, but that’s–
3:38:18 - Yeah, there’s just some options
3:38:19 to think about in the future.
3:38:21 But no, in general, I think this is going to be a good plan
3:38:25 and a good streamlined way to do things.
3:38:29 - Okay, Ms. Wright.
3:38:31 - No, I appreciate you giving us the presentation.
3:38:34 Obviously, I had the opportunity to sit down
3:38:35 and talk with you about this ahead of time
3:38:36 and see what the vision was and it’s needed.
3:38:40 I believe for us to do the exact same thing
3:38:43 and expect different results, we know what that is.
3:38:45 And so this change should be a positive change.
3:38:48 I’m looking forward to seeing the other side of it
3:38:50 when right now I know it’s bringing uncertainty
3:38:52 and some people are nervous about that
3:38:53 and that’s just the nature of change, unfortunately.
3:38:57 But I think once we give this model a try
3:38:59 and we see the dividends that it pays,
3:39:02 I think we will walk away and go,
3:39:03 “Hey, that was actually a really good thing
3:39:05 “that we’re really excited about seeing.”
3:39:06 So thank you for being bold enough
3:39:09 to step out in this role.
3:39:10 I know this, I’m sure, has not been an easy decision
3:39:13 and so I’m grateful for your leadership on this one.
3:39:16 I think it’s gonna bring good things to Brevard County.
3:39:18 So thank you.
3:39:19 - Sue, can I just address the uncertainty real quick
3:39:21 ‘cause I know there are directors in the room and watching.
3:39:23 - Yeah. (laughs)
3:39:24 - It’s the same number of directors,
3:39:25 they just might be in different seats.
3:39:27 So my intent is to sit down with each of them
3:39:30 and ask them what their preferences would be.
3:39:33 There may be some directors right now
3:39:34 that oversees schools and stuff
3:39:37 and they might say, “Man, if all I could focus on
3:39:39 “was my schools, then I’d wanna do that.”
3:39:42 They might say, “You know, I really like my stuff.
3:39:44 “I really like being in charge of X, Y, and Z.
3:39:47 “I do love supervising schools,
3:39:49 “but I don’t wanna give up supervising X, Y, and Z,
3:39:51 “those departments, those curriculum responsibilities.”
3:39:54 And we’ll see if it all shakes out,
3:39:56 they all get their pick, then awesome.
3:39:58 If not, then we’ll have to see who goes into what seat.
3:40:02 But not replacing any directors or anything like that,
3:40:04 the idea would be that they find one of these spots
3:40:09 to their liking and they’re suited for
3:40:11 and we move on like that.
3:40:12 You know, that’s gonna be,
3:40:14 so that the director’s watching and in the room,
3:40:15 the idea is we don’t wanna lose you,
3:40:18 we wanna figure out which spot you wanna be in.
3:40:21 And if they can all get that spot, great.
3:40:22 If not, then we’ll have to make some decisions
3:40:25 on who gets to do what.
3:40:27 - Thank you, I appreciate you clarifying that
3:40:28 because I do think there is uncertainty
3:40:30 with everything and we don’t wanna lose
3:40:33 any more of our people, there’s no doubt about that.
3:40:34 - Right, well, and it’s been a delicate balance
3:40:37 of sharing stuff with the board
3:40:39 and directors and staff members.
3:40:42 It’s, you know, you don’t wanna share stuff
3:40:44 with other people before you guys get to see it,
3:40:45 but so they’re seeing a lot of this for the first time.
3:40:49 - Yeah, okay, thank you.
3:40:52 - I wanted to say thank you.
3:40:54 I understand absolutely with the chief of schools,
3:40:57 just like you said, and being in many
3:40:59 of the other school districts across the state,
3:41:01 the larger school districts have them
3:41:02 and it’s a good because of the unification of everything.
3:41:05 I absolutely love the breakdown of the regional,
3:41:08 going back to having regional representation.
3:41:10 I think in some areas that are square counties,
3:41:14 the county itself is a little bit different,
3:41:16 but we have a cultural difference from MIMS to MECO.
3:41:20 And I think that each one of those is amazing
3:41:23 and having that ability to shine individually
3:41:26 and having that representative in there
3:41:27 is gonna make some great things.
3:41:29 And I think that that’s been needed for a long time.
3:41:32 I appreciate that.
3:41:33 And when you talk about the offices, sharing some offices,
3:41:38 when we first got here,
3:41:39 some of the staff was at the Pineapple facility
3:41:43 and it’s a beautiful building.
3:41:45 And I got inside there, the roof’s perfect on it.
3:41:48 Somebody left the windows open,
3:41:49 so it might not be so perfect anymore.
3:41:51 But the issue is, is that there was just kind
3:41:53 of this nostalgic of representing your local team.
3:41:56 And I felt that in there.
3:41:58 And I think that that’s what we’re gonna get back to.
3:41:59 So I love the idea of having people work
3:42:02 in regional offices and stuff like that,
3:42:03 because it means less time that you’re here
3:42:05 and more time in those areas.
3:42:07 For somebody to report here to this building,
3:42:10 then get in the car or have to drive up to MIMS or MECO,
3:42:14 it makes it a little bit of a long run.
3:42:16 It’s windshield time, it’s effectiveness.
3:42:18 And when you’re waking up every day next to the people
3:42:20 that are inside those areas and saying,
3:42:22 “Hey, this is what’s going on here.”
3:42:24 You eat at the same,
3:42:25 you get your hair cut at the same place,
3:42:27 you eat at the same, you know what I mean?
3:42:29 You’re in the culture, and I love that.
3:42:31 So thank you so much.
3:42:32 I really appreciate everything you’ve brought forward.
3:42:34 I absolutely love the one thing,
3:42:36 is that the citizens of Brevard County are over the top.
3:42:38 And I know you put that in there.
3:42:40 I really appreciate you doing that.
3:42:42 Thank you.
3:42:43 Dr. Rendell, this is great.
3:42:45 Thank you.
3:42:46 Does anybody else wish to say anything
3:42:48 before we move forward?
3:42:50 - No, let’s get to the 5,000 policies.
3:42:51 - Did you have, did you have any,
3:42:54 did you have anything else you’d like to say, Dr. Rendell?
3:42:58 - No, I’m just looking forward to getting to work
3:43:00 to put this in place, that’s all.
3:43:02 - Okay.
3:43:03 All right, one of the things that we always end up with is,
3:43:06 I just wanted to run through some of the heads up
3:43:08 on July 11th, some of the things
3:43:11 that are gonna be coming up, just real fast.
3:43:13 The 1,000s, just so you guys know, are now coming back.
3:43:17 So all the ones we went through have now been–
3:43:19 - Zeros. - Zeros.
3:43:21 Sorry, I was getting excited there, Paul.
3:43:23 All right, the zeros are coming back,
3:43:25 and we are gonna do the 5,000s, all right?
3:43:27 - I know, I know, I’m still–
3:43:29 - I do wanna take a second to say,
3:43:32 Ms. Campbell, if you feel appropriate,
3:43:33 maybe on the 11th we can talk about that challenge,
3:43:36 because we gotta get ready before school starts,
3:43:37 ‘cause, you know what I mean,
3:43:38 if we’re gonna be doing these physical challenges
3:43:40 and stuff like that, I think, or whatever–
3:43:42 - Dr. Rendell, are you in?
3:43:44 - Oh, yeah.
3:43:45 - What is the challenge?
3:43:46 Let’s do it.
3:43:47 - This is the member she makes–
3:43:47 - To be determined.
3:43:48 - She makes me, and everybody, ‘cause she calls me out,
3:43:50 because I haven’t got a good–
3:43:51 - We’re gonna set an example for all of our staff
3:43:53 across the district for getting healthy
3:43:55 and being well. - She’s been doing a great job,
3:43:58 and let me reiterate, she’s been doing a great job
3:44:00 of effectively asking us to walk,
3:44:02 and there’s a pair of golden shoes in Gibbs’ office
3:44:04 just because he puts them on his dog
3:44:06 and lets that walk around,
3:44:07 and that’s what ends up getting the steps, right?
3:44:09 So the thing is is that I have not done a good job
3:44:12 of effectively being a part of that.
3:44:14 I apologize to Ms. Campbell, and moving forward,
3:44:17 I said let’s put up this challenge
3:44:19 of whatever the school district is doing,
3:44:21 five Ks and whatever it is,
3:44:22 to promote what they’re doing, right?
3:44:24 So I wanted to say, if we can bring back that idea,
3:44:27 the CC, the Campbell Challenge on the 11th,
3:44:31 that might be a good discussion.
3:44:32 - So I have SIAC tomorrow,
3:44:33 and I’ll see if we can hook up some of our,
3:44:35 ‘cause we have Cigna representatives
3:44:36 who work here in the building.
3:44:37 They work for us, and they lead a lot of those initiatives,
3:44:40 so maybe they can work with them,
3:44:41 and they can help design something,
3:44:42 especially for the five, six, seven of us.
3:44:47 - We may not include Paul, ‘cause he’ll probably win,
3:44:49 but at least– - Maybe get some of them
3:44:51 to come in, too.
3:44:54 - Oh, okay, then we’re including Paul.
3:44:56 - You wouldn’t know.
3:44:59 - Yeah, there we go. - There it is.
3:45:00 The other thing I wanted to do is
3:45:03 we have the veterans groups coming on the next,
3:45:06 on the 11th, where we’re talking about retention recruitment,
3:45:08 some of the policies we have, and all of those things.
3:45:11 I’ll get a summary together so you guys know what it is.
3:45:13 If you wanted to invite any of your veterans groups
3:45:15 to be a part of it, it is a collaborative effort.
3:45:18 The other thing is is that the athletic policies,
3:45:22 there’s a couple of athletic policies.
3:45:24 We were waiting for an athletics director to be in charge,
3:45:26 and he’s gonna bring ‘em back.
3:45:27 There’s like two of ‘em, so you’ll see those.
3:45:31 Don’t forget your form six.
3:45:33 So if you guys have not already done it,
3:45:35 it has to be done this month, and it’s all electronic,
3:45:39 so if you haven’t done it, please take a second and do it.
3:45:41 - It’s not Friday yet.
3:45:42 - Yeah, well, I just wanted to remind you guys,
3:45:44 ‘cause you may have forgotten.
3:45:46 - We need grace up here, right here.
3:45:47 - Well, let’s just get it done.
3:45:48 Let’s just not get into the grace period.
3:45:49 - It’s never late, it’s just not early.
3:45:51 - And then the other thing is is that we had spoken,
3:45:56 we had spoken before about the cost of having us
3:46:01 redistrict and stuff like that.
3:46:02 I wanna bring that back now that we’ve had the resolution
3:46:05 and all that other stuff and have a discussion
3:46:06 on whether we are going to inhibitally pay for a portion
3:46:11 of the supervisor’s costs, or if we’re not,
3:46:14 as proved, as Dr., or Mr. Gibbs had stated,
3:46:18 there’s no physical or there’s no law
3:46:21 that says that we have to, but I have a feeling
3:46:23 that the conversation wrapped around what is good
3:46:26 for governance and what is right
3:46:29 is part of that conversation.
3:46:30 So I’ll have some of those stats put up,
3:46:32 but I just kinda wanted to let you guys know
3:46:34 what was coming up on the July 11th,
3:46:35 and if there’s anything else that you guys
3:46:37 wish to talk about, we can, if not.
3:46:40 - Mr. Chair, just to let the board know,
3:46:42 we will be requesting an exec session
3:46:44 on the 11th for bargaining.
3:46:47 - Okay.
3:46:47 - Some more discussion on that.
3:46:49 - So let’s not go ‘til five o’clock on the 11th.
3:46:52 - I’ll do my best.
3:46:55 - Hey guys.
3:46:55 - That wasn’t geared towards you.
3:46:57 - Great day, appreciate it.
3:46:58 Anybody else?
3:46:59 Nothing else?
3:47:00 That’ll be the end of the meeting.
3:47:02 - All right.
3:47:12 (upbeat music)