2024-02-27 - School Board Work Session

0:00 (upbeat music)

5:11 - Good afternoon.

5:13 Welcome to the February 27th, 2024 board work session.

5:16 It is now in order.

5:17 Mr. Gibbs is not present.

5:19 Are we able to call the roll ourselves?

5:21 - Yep.

5:22 - All right, we don’t have legal counsel,

5:23 so we’re just gonna wing it.

5:24 Ms. Jenkins.

5:24 - Here.

5:26 - Ms. Campbell.

5:27 - Here.

5:27 - Ms. Wright, here.

5:29 - Mr. Trent.

5:30 - Here.

5:30 - All right, Mr. Susan.

5:31 - Here.

5:32 - All right, wonderful.

5:33 Will you please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance?

5:38 I pledge allegiance.

5:38 - I pledge allegiance to the flag

5:40 of the United States of America

5:42 and to the Republic for which it stands,

5:44 one nation under God, indivisible,

5:47 with liberty and justice for all.

5:49 - All right, so our work session today

5:53 does not have a real hefty agenda.

5:55 The first thing that we have

5:57 is the discontinued book title update.

6:00 I’m gonna turn the floor over to Ms. Harris.

6:02 I think you’re gonna give us a quick update on this.

6:05 - So good afternoon to our board members and Dr. Rendell.

6:08 We, in front of you, have a handout,

6:11 and these are titles that were removed at a board meeting,

6:14 and we’re just looking for some direction for next steps,

6:18 and just some clarity.

6:20 So what the language in the law says

6:22 is it speaks to objective titles

6:25 that are silenced due to pornographic information

6:30 or the language around sexual content.

6:32 And so at that meeting, we pulled quite a few titles

6:36 just as we gained clarity.

6:38 And so in the chart in front of you,

6:39 you’ll see some of the titles

6:42 were on our formal objection list

6:44 and were stopped for sexual content.

6:46 You see the light blue column.

6:48 Those are titles that are on our formal objection list,

6:52 but were stopped for language that was not

6:55 necessarily pornographic.

6:57 And then the third white column.

7:00 Those are titles that were removed,

7:02 but they are not on our formal objection list.

7:05 And you see you have the title allegedly

7:07 that was stopped for language.

7:09 And then the next two, they were stopped for sexual content.

7:13 And so we’re looking for direction moving forward

7:16 of that white column, looking around.

7:20 Is your definition of objective titles,

7:24 those titles that have gone through the objective,

7:26 the formal objection process,

7:28 and that makes them an objective title?

7:31 Or I know there has been some conversation

7:33 around objective title is once our community stakeholder

7:36 comes up and speaks to that title,

7:39 that that is their form of objection.

7:43 So we’re looking just for next steps around.

7:47 Obviously, when we printed this out,

7:49 this was before we knew of the vote for Nowhere Girls,

7:52 so we’re clear on what to do with that one.

7:54 But all of these titles are currently not on the shelves.

7:58 So we’re looking for the far right column,

8:01 next steps based on are we acting as though

8:05 they are objected if they were stopped for sexual content?

8:09 Are we considering them objected because the stakeholder

8:12 came up and read them aloud,

8:16 and then they were stopped for sexual conduct?

8:18 Or are we saying they were not formally objected?

8:22 I know this is sounding clear as mud,

8:24 but it’s just splitting here if we wanna be clear.

8:26 - We’re navigating through a fun topic.

8:29 So just for clarification, I know Paul, you just got back,

8:31 so I apologize for the last minute question

8:33 I’m gonna ask you.

8:33 But if they were objected because of sexual content,

8:37 I believe my opinion would be that they should be

8:38 on the removed books list,

8:41 because they were stopped from being read,

8:43 even if they’ve not been formally challenged,

8:44 that’s my opinion.

8:46 Question about being stopped for language

8:48 versus being stopped for sexual content.

8:51 Can you tell me, does the statute clearly define

8:55 that you must stop it because of,

8:56 do you have it up right now?

8:57 All right, go ahead, if you have it up,

8:58 if you’ll read it for me.

8:59 - Yeah, I thought this would be helpful

9:00 to all the conversations.

9:01 So it’s that section of 1006.28,

9:05 just so y’all can find it later or go back.

9:08 It’s number one, little, I’m not, just find it.

9:14 I lost track of which number it is,

9:16 but in there that part says,

9:17 parents shall have the right to read passages

9:20 from any material that is subject to an objection.

9:24 If the school board denies a parent

9:26 the right to read passages due to content

9:28 that meets the requirements under sub, sub, sub paragraph B1

9:32 which is pornographic or prohibited under 847.012,

9:36 the district shall discontinue the use of the material.

9:39 If the district school board finds that any material

9:41 and then, right, and then it talks about,

9:46 then it goes on to other things

9:47 that it’s not related specifically to them talking to it.

9:51 But if it has to do with two through four,

9:53 which is the sexual content, conduct part,

9:57 that is, it uses the same words as far as,

10:01 so it doesn’t say anything about language.

10:02 It’s only about pornographic, sexual conduct, those things.

10:07 So, but I will tell you the result of all of them,

10:10 just to go back to Ms. Harris’s question,

10:14 is if the school board denies the right,

10:17 the school district shall discontinue.

10:19 If the school board finds any material meets,

10:22 you know, B1, the pornographic one,

10:25 they shall discontinue the use of the material.

10:27 If it’s two through four, which is the sexual conduct,

10:30 the district shall discontinue the use of the material.

10:32 So to me, the result is the same, regardless.

10:35 So it is, these books, if we own them,

10:38 and they are subject to objection.

10:41 So my opinion is that if we stop them for sexual conduct,

10:47 content, that they, whether they’re on our formal list

10:52 or not on our formal list, that they should be removed,

10:54 but not for language.

10:57 - I’m of that same opinion.

10:59 I believe if I stop them for language,

11:01 it’s no different than if somebody gets up there

11:02 and starts hurling curse words from the podium,

11:05 we have to stop them from talking.

11:06 It doesn’t mean that they’re not allowed to speak,

11:08 it just means they’re not allowed

11:08 to speak the way that they’re speaking.

11:09 So I’m of the same understanding.

11:12 If we stop them due to language,

11:13 it’s not easy to go through the process.

11:15 If they were stopped due to sexual content,

11:18 then they need to go on the list of removed books,

11:20 i.e. this column that you have on the right-hand side

11:22 that are not this column here.

11:24 These are not– - Yeah, but not all of them.

11:26 The first one, it wouldn’t be.

11:27 The other two, it would be. - So the first one

11:28 on that far right column,

11:30 the first one was stopped for language.

11:32 The other two were stopped for sexual content.

11:34 So we would be just looking at that first one

11:38 that was stopped for language.

11:39 - Okay.

11:39 But it’s not on the formal objection list right now anyways.

11:42 Okay, okay. - And that’s why we were unclear

11:46 just with the language around objected.

11:49 It doesn’t say formal objected.

11:50 - Right, okay.

11:51 All right, board, what’s the rest?

11:52 There’s only two of us that have weighed in on this.

11:54 Does anybody else wanna weigh in on this?

11:55 - I concur.

11:56 - Yeah, I wanna weigh in.

11:57 So I have a couple of questions.

12:00 First question being, did we confirm whether or not

12:02 these are people who are parents of children

12:04 in our school system?

12:06 - So we are unable to do that based on just them speaking

12:09 ‘cause we just have their name.

12:11 - So we know for a fact that there were at least

12:16 five to seven people who don’t even go

12:18 to Brevard Public Schools who were up there

12:20 at that podium reading.

12:21 We can identify them.

12:23 Some of them identified themselves.

12:26 I do not believe that we should be making any decision

12:29 off of that alone.

12:30 Again, I’ll go back to the governor

12:33 who literally just said that himself.

12:36 If you are not a parent of a student in the school system,

12:39 that should not be a consideration that we’re having.

12:42 That is my opinion.

12:43 I don’t believe that it should be for language.

12:48 I also am gonna go back to the argument that I made

12:50 in the past.

12:51 So when you read that statute and it says shall discontinue,

12:55 our policy already discontinues the use

12:58 when something is formally challenged.

13:00 They’re already removed from the shelves.

13:03 So the ones that are formal objections already

13:06 in that box right there, I argue,

13:09 they’ve already been discontinued.

13:11 We’ve already met the letter of the law.

13:13 I believe they should still go through the challenge

13:16 and the policy that we have in place

13:17 because otherwise what we’ve just created

13:19 is some way to circumvent the policy we have in place

13:21 and it doesn’t make any sense in my opinion.

13:23 - Which is what the statute.

13:27 - I don’t think it’s done yet.

13:30 - Okay.

13:34 - Again, when there’s the two outliers

13:36 that are on the not formal objection list,

13:39 I question who was reading those books.

13:43 Because again, we had a press conference

13:47 from the governor in the Department of Education

13:49 saying we have too many, we gotta change the law.

13:51 We’re gonna start finding people

13:52 for making egregious things, making egregious requests.

13:56 They’re not even parents, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

13:58 And we know, we all know, everyone up here knows

14:02 that I wanna guesstimate seven out of the 10 people

14:05 that were speaking that day

14:06 don’t even live in Brevard County.

14:09 And we can’t confirm whether or not the people

14:10 who were in Brevard County have kids in our schools.

14:13 I think we need to be taking this seriously,

14:16 taking control of the policy

14:17 that we have established as a board

14:19 and we need to be the ones making those decisions,

14:22 not the public intentionally coming up here

14:24 and trying to circumvent it.

14:25 So again, I believe that the ones

14:28 that were already on the formal objection list

14:31 already met the letter of the law.

14:33 They should continue through the committee review policy

14:35 and that’s my opinion.

14:37 Otherwise, you are literally opening the floodgates.

14:39 And I guarantee you, in March,

14:41 you’re gonna have all those people show up again.

14:44 - Yeah, and just for clarification,

14:46 I mean, we can pull the public comment card

14:48 which should be able to tell and identify pretty quickly

14:50 ‘cause they’re supposed to fill out their address

14:52 and their name.

14:53 So it’s trackable to see

14:54 are these Brevard County residents even if they’re not.

14:57 - The tricky part is that the statute vaguely,

15:02 I mean, it doesn’t describe.

15:03 It just says–

15:04 - Well, it says a parent of a student

15:06 to whom or for whom instructional materials.

15:09 - But I know you all watched the press conference

15:11 with the Department of Education and Ron DeSantis.

15:14 So you can’t be fearful of what the ramifications are

15:16 when the governor and the head of the Department of Ed

15:19 point blank said that over and over and over again.

15:21 - I do think that particular,

15:23 and I didn’t get to watch the press conference,

15:25 but I saw the articles that came out after there.

15:28 I thought that was specifically talking about people

15:31 who are bringing challenges,

15:32 not this part that has to do with,

15:35 and I don’t like it anymore

15:36 ‘cause I don’t like that it opens up the door

15:38 for people to come and read the material

15:40 in our board meetings

15:41 when we’re trying to take care of business.

15:42 I don’t like it at all.

15:43 Made that very, I was,

15:45 I fussed about that several months ago,

15:46 but it’s in there intentionally

15:49 to kind of circumvent the process.

15:51 I don’t think necessarily for Brevard

15:53 but for the districts that aren’t maybe handling it

15:56 in the same way.

15:58 But I will say there is a difference

15:59 between the language of the statute of discontinued use

16:02 versus what we have in our policy

16:04 when somebody submits a formal request

16:06 and our language is removed from circulation

16:08 and there’s a difference.

16:09 To me, the discontinued from use is we’re done.

16:12 It’s not gonna be in Brevard.

16:13 What we have done currently with these books

16:16 is they are removed from circulation.

16:18 So we haven’t discontinued use.

16:20 That’s kind of the permanent end decision,

16:24 not the removed from circulation.

16:25 That means we still have them.

16:26 They can go back like Kite Runner.

16:28 All those are gonna go back,

16:29 have already gone back.

16:30 But there’s a difference between in that language

16:33 that kind of separates the result.

16:36 - Can I, I wanna challenge that though

16:38 because it’s all language that’s up for interpretation.

16:43 And if it’s up for interpretation,

16:46 it’s difficult to fear legal ramification

16:49 when both sides can be argued.

16:51 If it’s removed from circulation, then it can’t be used.

16:55 So it’s discontinued from use.

16:58 It’s not available anywhere.

17:00 So if someone, if it goes into the formal challenge process,

17:02 it’s not sitting in one school

17:04 and removed from another school.

17:05 It’s completely removed.

17:07 It is unusable.

17:08 And so I argue that it could be said

17:11 that they’re already discontinued from use.

17:14 It cannot just readily go back on the shelves either.

17:16 It’s going to have to go through this review process

17:19 in order to get there in the first place.

17:21 So it’s not like a willy-nilly back and forth decision.

17:25 I think it’s something that we should be asking

17:29 legal counsel about how they feel, which way or the other.

17:32 - Well, if I may, the Commissioner on Education

17:37 has his ways of enacting policy

17:40 through the Department of Education.

17:43 The governor can veto,

17:44 but the legislation that we have in front of us

17:47 is from the legislature, which is the intent.

17:52 So if the governor and the Education Commissioner come out

17:55 and they say, “Hey, we’re going to do this,”

17:56 if they do it, that’s one thing.

17:57 If they want to start trying to do that,

17:59 that’s their avenues.

18:00 But the core of what we read inside the statutes

18:02 has nothing to do with their purview.

18:04 They have specific roles to the statutes,

18:06 but it is not to create the laws.

18:08 If they want to create the laws,

18:09 they have to go through the legislature

18:10 in order to do so to put it inside the statute,

18:12 or it becomes educational law and code.

18:16 So just so you know, they can pop up and say all they want,

18:19 but they’re not going to define the statutes.

18:20 The statutes are law that is done a different way.

18:22 That’s all.

18:23 I just wanted to kind of clarify that.

18:25 - So to get us back on track

18:27 with what Ms. Harris is looking for,

18:29 I think we need to make a clear decision on this.

18:32 So I mean, I still stand where I stand with mine.

18:36 I believe that the ones that are stopped for language

18:39 still need to go through review.

18:41 I believe that the ones that are not on the formal list

18:44 that have been stopped, obviously, I still think,

18:47 I mean, they need to be put somewhere

18:48 ‘cause they were stopped.

18:49 So we can’t just say, oh, we’re going to ignore it

18:50 and not make an account of the fact

18:52 that we stopped those books due to content.

18:54 So they can’t go back into our libraries

18:57 is what I’m saying.

18:58 And if we don’t put them somewhere,

18:59 then they’re potentially going to come back into libraries.

19:02 - So I didn’t add that part.

19:05 I don’t think that they should just go back into library.

19:07 I think in order to follow the discontinue rule,

19:09 they would have to be in the formal challenge process

19:11 and removed from the challenges.

19:13 - So something that may help with the two titles

19:17 that were removed for sexual content

19:19 that have not been formally objected,

19:21 we also have teams reviewing our books

19:25 in the district period.

19:26 So whether they’ve been formally objected or not,

19:29 just with the rollout of the language

19:31 to make sure that we’re being compliant.

19:33 So what we can do for the ones that are,

19:36 we don’t have to put them through the book committee

19:39 process because we have never received

19:41 a formal objection on them.

19:43 But we can have our district team review those two titles

19:46 to confirm, do they either meet the letter of the law

19:50 around the sexual content or not as an off-ramp

19:53 without going through committee?

19:55 And then the first title, now I say this,

20:00 we have a couple other people than the two ladies here

20:02 that are part of our team, but it’s still

20:04 a very limited team to read the number of books.

20:07 But what we can do for that first one is,

20:09 because it was stopped for language,

20:11 that one, because we haven’t yet confirmed

20:15 does it have sexual content in it,

20:17 we can do the same thing.

20:18 We can review that, it will take some time,

20:20 and we just want a direction

20:21 for when they’re stopped for language.

20:23 So we’re hearing that when they’re stopped for language,

20:26 we’re gonna go through the process we would

20:27 either if they were going to be objected

20:30 and going through the book committee process

20:32 or that the district team is reviewing them to see

20:36 do they meet the letter of the law to be on our shelves.

20:40 I think that helps us in knowing our next steps.

20:43 We know that the two titles,

20:45 House of Earth and Blood, What Girls Are Made Of,

20:48 those are books that we would do first

20:50 to confirm with that off-ramp.

20:52 And then, so we won’t put any of these

20:55 back on the shelf today, we will do our process.

20:59 We just want a clarity on the formal objection,

21:02 if they are stopped and why they’re stopped,

21:04 but I think now we have that information going forward.

21:07 If they are stopped for language,

21:09 we would do our due diligence,

21:11 we would not remove them just based on stopped for language

21:14 without knowing that they have sexual conduct

21:18 or content included.

21:20 - So can I clarify then what, in the middle of that,

21:24 I think I lost track of what we’re doing with the two

21:27 on the third column that were stopped for sexual conduct.

21:31 Are we removing those,

21:32 or are we putting those through the committee?

21:35 - They would not go through the committee necessarily,

21:37 ‘cause the books that are coming through committee

21:40 we’ve received a formal objection to.

21:42 - I mean, not the reading committee, but your team.

21:45 - Well, that is where we just need,

21:48 because they have sexual conduct in them

21:50 that violates the language that we just wanted to be clear

21:54 that what you guys call an objected title

21:57 is what we’re considering an objected title.

21:59 So just confirming that sexual conduct,

22:02 that was why they were stopped.

22:04 And so when we go into that language

22:05 where it speaks to sexual content or pornographic material,

22:10 those two titles would go through that process

22:14 because they were stopped.

22:15 If you’re saying that’s an objected title,

22:16 they would be discontinued use.

22:18 - Yeah, that’s what I was thinking.

22:20 I just wanna make sure, ‘cause to me,

22:22 if they were stopped, whether they’re on the list

22:23 or not on the list, they all are subject to an objection,

22:25 so they need to be removed in the same way,

22:27 treated the same way.

22:29 Okay, sorry, my mic wasn’t on.

22:30 - And what we can also do,

22:33 that night we were doing our best to record

22:36 and we’ve watched that meeting over and over to record.

22:38 We can also, if needed,

22:41 we can look if it is apparent or not,

22:44 but if the book has sexual content in it,

22:48 that becomes a little of a moot point

22:50 if it’s apparent or not.

22:51 Yes, for removing it based on being silenced here,

22:53 yes, it requires a parent.

22:55 But if we find that the title does have content

22:58 that’s not allowable under the language,

23:00 we would do our district process for that.

23:04 So we’re going to, these two books confirm

23:06 the sexual content is there, that they were silenced for,

23:10 that they won’t go back on the shelf,

23:11 and then with the allegedly,

23:13 we’ll be reviewing that with our district team.

23:18 - Perfect, sounds good.

23:21 Board, are you okay? - Yeah, on a side note,

23:24 I’m just gonna throw this out there,

23:26 because I think things, after that night,

23:31 will settle down, I think our community has understood

23:33 that this board’s doing the best they can

23:35 and doing a good job and better than most, I’d say,

23:37 in trying to deal with the situation.

23:41 But there are other districts that add a step

23:43 in their board meetings,

23:45 because we’re not the only ones that this happened to,

23:47 that they do, if a parent says

23:50 they’re gonna read from a book,

23:52 they do not stop them, but pause them,

23:55 they have somebody in the, pause the timer or whatever,

23:57 they have somebody in the room to confirm that that’s a book.

24:01 It’s something I brought up last year,

24:02 but it’s actually a book on our shelves,

24:05 so people aren’t walking in reading things

24:07 that aren’t, that’s something that we don’t own.

24:11 So just something to consider, it may not matter at all,

24:14 it may not come up, but that’s something that we could do.

24:17 And we could even confirm that they’re a parent

24:21 at that time, so it’s something we could do

24:24 just to try to limit that.

24:26 What I would say, the governor was trying to limit,

24:28 misbehavior or theatrics on behalf of people

24:32 who that’s, if the law was not written with that intent.

24:37 - So I appreciate you trying to mitigate that problem,

24:41 but I don’t think that we can do that,

24:44 because we cannot police what people are saying

24:48 with their First Amendment right,

24:49 to come here and make public comments.

24:51 Yes, there’s a limit, of course.

24:53 So just randomly stopping people

24:56 and asking what they’re gonna talk about

24:57 and whether or not it’s something appropriate for here,

25:00 ‘cause we don’t have the book or not,

25:01 is gonna get us into a weird situation.

25:03 Also, you can’t require someone to say who they are,

25:07 where they live, and if they’re a parent.

25:09 - Right.

25:10 - My whole argument was, we knew who those people were.

25:13 They lived in Indian River County.

25:14 Like, that was my whole point.

25:15 But we can’t legally require that of somebody either.

25:17 So I don’t really know if that’s necessarily

25:20 gonna fix the problem.

25:21 I appreciate you bringing it up,

25:22 but I think it’ll just get us into weird situations,

25:26 even more situations, and they’ll just start

25:28 making up names in places and all that.

25:31 - Agreed.

25:32 - But I do think it is something

25:33 that we should be taking consideration of after the fact,

25:36 before we make decisions that we’re making

25:38 for Brevard Public Schools.

25:40 - All right, does anybody else have anything

25:41 I need to add to this conversation?

25:43 - No other than thank you for–

25:44 - Yes, thank you.

25:45 - Your hard work in this sensitive topic.

25:48 - I know.

25:49 - And there’s two ladies right here.

25:50 - Yes.

25:51 - Your whole team.

25:52 - It is a village.

25:57 - Okay, so part of our team just wants clarity

26:00 around discontinued use.

26:02 So if we’re discontinuing the use

26:04 based on it being silenced for sexual content,

26:08 discontinued use is in order for it to get back

26:11 on our shelves, and this is a question I’m posing.

26:14 My understanding would be that to get it back

26:16 on our shelves, we would do the same vetting we would

26:18 with a new book purchase to make sure it’s in compliance.

26:23 - Doesn’t our, does our policy still have the–

26:26 - Our policy has a time stipulation on it

26:27 before it’s able to come back in, but–

26:29 - But that’s if it’s formally challenged.

26:30 - Yes, if it’s formally challenged,

26:32 we have a timeline on that.

26:33 If it’s discontinued use, we do not.

26:38 If it’s discontinued use based on something

26:41 that happens here at a board meeting

26:43 and of a parent speaking, there’s not a timeline.

26:45 It just says discontinued use.

26:47 - This statute doesn’t address–

26:48 - Also, when we are going through our district process,

26:52 if we determine a book has, meets that off-ramp

26:55 and it is being removed, there’s not a timeline

26:58 to that either, it’s discontinued use,

27:01 and we’ve been working under the understanding

27:03 that if in three years, four years, 15 years,

27:07 a media specialist wants to bring that book

27:09 back into his or her collection,

27:11 they would then look at the language

27:13 as we’re doing with, every time we’re purchasing a book now,

27:15 we have that language out, and that would be part of that,

27:18 can I purchase this book or not?

27:22 So what we do, and it’s kind of like

27:24 when we’re removing a book, we inform our media specialists,

27:27 but if in five years, a media specialist

27:31 wants to consider bringing that book back,

27:34 they would have to do just what we’re doing now

27:36 with every new book purchase, reviewing that law

27:39 to see if that title meets.

27:41 We can, we have a list of everything we’ve removed,

27:44 whether by committee or by district committee or team,

27:48 we’re clear on what we have removed,

27:50 and the people currently in all the positions are clear,

27:53 but we just want to, we do not have

27:55 a timeline written into policy.

27:57 If it’s removed outside of the book committee,

28:00 there’s not a timeline, per se, of that.

28:03 We’ve just gone with discontinued,

28:05 knowing that if it were coming back into a collection,

28:07 it would have to meet all the criteria a title needs

28:10 to get back into a collection.

28:12 - I have a question, I have a question for you.

28:14 - So this was why I was, when we were revising this,

28:19 like, I don’t know, a couple year and a half ago,

28:21 and we were one of the steps a couple times ago,

28:23 but it was brought up, it was so important

28:26 to make sure we’re documenting in the system, right,

28:28 because what you just described is a situation,

28:31 if it’s not clearly labeled in the systems,

28:35 in the order system, and I don’t know exactly how it works,

28:38 then there’s potential that we could have

28:40 a brand new media specialist next year

28:42 who goes, oh, I’m gonna order this book,

28:44 and maybe it’s one that just got removed,

28:45 they could, you know, the nowhere girls,

28:47 so the oh, we’re gonna bring in the nowhere girls.

28:49 If there, what is in there that’s going to pop up and say,

28:53 you can’t purchase this book ‘cause the school board

28:55 voted to remove it, so we need,

28:58 that needs to be crystal clear,

29:00 and I know that the law doesn’t describe for us

29:05 how to bring things back, but discontinue kind of,

29:09 to me, would say, like, it’s done, yeah.

29:13 - You mean like a ban?

29:15 - The media specialist to know,

29:17 the state requires us to submit a form every year of books,

29:22 and they keep a list, so the media specialist consult

29:25 that list before making purchases.

29:28 - Right, and it still could be something

29:30 that is, I mean, ‘cause other districts pulled things

29:33 for all different reasons, which is why we didn’t go with

29:37 the statewide list. - I think what’s good

29:38 about the state list, and what we don’t have

29:41 on that state list that we would like

29:43 is the why it was removed, and that’s not there,

29:45 but what we do have is whether,

29:48 regardless of how the title is removed,

29:50 it’s on the state list, so whether it’s through

29:52 book committee and board recommendation,

29:54 if it’s through district team, if it’s removed

29:57 because of a speaker being silenced, it’s on that list.

30:00 So I think moving forward, because we can put it

30:04 in our, like, FALET systems, but again,

30:07 we don’t know in three years if that’ll be our vendor,

30:09 you know, there’s so many variables,

30:11 but that state list, now that we have this language,

30:15 that will be updated, and at the end of the year,

30:17 I think it’s by June 30th each year,

30:20 we put all the titles of removed.

30:22 Now, we do inform the state why we’ve removed,

30:26 but whether it was removed through board recommendation

30:29 or district committee, it is on that list,

30:31 so if that’s something that our media specialists

30:34 always have to reference, that list would be one,

30:38 one way to catch that from happening.

30:40 - Okay, I noticed in the statute that,

30:44 that part about reporting to the state,

30:48 and it is June 30th, it says each material

30:51 that was removed or discontinued,

30:53 and you don’t have to give a reason,

30:54 but then the next one says each material

30:56 that was not removed or discontinued,

30:58 and the rationale for not removing

30:59 or discontinuing the material, so have we,

31:02 we did this already once, right, ‘cause June 30th,

31:04 so did we send any of the ones that were,

31:08 ‘cause we had there were a few that were not discontinued,

31:11 they were limited, right, so in the list

31:14 that we send to the state, did they publish that,

31:17 the ones, they’d publish that as well, with the rationale?

31:22 - No rationale. - Okay.

31:23 - So they ask us to give the rationale,

31:25 but they don’t publish the rationale?

31:26 - Correct. - I wish they’d

31:28 do it the other way. - We’ve requested that,

31:31 just because that would be helpful,

31:33 you know, like, it would be helpful if they requested,

31:36 you know, in violation of whatever,

31:39 then we would, that would make our jobs,

31:42 at least more expedient in making decisions.

31:44 - I appreciate that.

31:45 - I look forward to the day when we look at book publishers,

31:48 and there’s a rating system on a book, I really do,

31:51 because honestly, it’s crazy to me

31:52 when you think about movies, you think about music,

31:53 even has explicit warnings on it,

31:55 but for whatever reason, books have just kind of

31:57 fallen under the radar and that hasn’t happened.

31:59 Interestingly enough, with the movie rating system,

32:01 that’s a voluntary system, it’d be really great

32:03 if publishers just took it on, you know, on themselves

32:05 and said, hey, we’re gonna implement this,

32:06 because this has become such a hot topic

32:10 all over the country. - Even video games.

32:11 - Yeah, even video games, you’re right,

32:13 even video games have age of, you know, but not books,

32:16 which is interesting, so thank you for your hard work,

32:18 I know it’s a lot that you guys have been doing, that team.

32:22 You’re not clear? Okay.

32:26 - About definite discontinue?

32:28 - You can talk a little louder.

32:29 - Sorry, go ahead.

32:30 - We just wanna be crystal clear,

32:31 we’re not trying to beat this horse.

32:32 - It’s as clear as mud, we got it.

32:33 - But we’re making decisions.

32:35 - So the only part we’re not clear on still

32:37 is the one that they’re formal, sexual competent,

32:40 if those are to be removed and held within the process?

32:44 - Yes. - Right.

32:45 - Or are they still going through the process?

32:47 - No. - No.

32:48 - No, I believe they should be removed

32:51 and not go through the process,

32:52 because we’ve already stopped it, there doesn’t,

32:55 I mean, the district has the ability, could we just,

32:58 oh, I don’t know, I don’t wanna open that anymore.

33:00 - Yeah, this is the hard thing,

33:00 because then it puts all the, there’s one decision maker,

33:03 and no offense to you, but the board

33:06 didn’t make that decision, the chairman did.

33:09 And any particular chairman of any board

33:11 that did this made that decision, but that is,

33:14 we as a board, that, as this board in Brevard,

33:19 that is the only, that’s the way we,

33:25 because of how we did or didn’t address it and it happened,

33:28 that’s the only avenue we have is that the chairman does it.

33:32 There are other districts who are handling

33:34 this public comment clause differently

33:37 so that the rest of the board can have some more input,

33:40 and it’s not just all on one person

33:42 to make the decision in the moment.

33:44 But unfortunately, I do believe the statute was written

33:47 so that it’s made in the moment.

33:50 Whether, you know, and some other boards,

33:51 like I was talking about Volusia, they have where other,

33:55 I don’t remember, I think they used the point of order term,

33:58 if someone on the board, when someone starts reading

34:00 and they think, oh, this is too far,

34:01 someone says point of order, and then they stop them,

34:03 or that, I don’t remember, ‘cause I have to ask

34:06 my buddy in Volusia how they do it.

34:07 But so there’s, but it does put a lot of pressure,

34:10 but like, that’s what the statute says.

34:12 So I think that I am of the same opinion.

34:16 This first column, this formal objection,

34:18 that they’re removed just as if they were,

34:21 had gone through the process, and we voted.

34:25 - You’re talking about the last column,

34:26 the columns that are not– - No, the first column.

34:27 - The orange one where, ‘cause that would speak

34:30 to the language that the chairman stopped them

34:32 from speaking due to sexual content,

34:33 so then they would be discontinued.

34:34 - But what about the books that aren’t

34:35 on our challenge list?

34:36 Those are the ones that are in question.

34:37 Those are the ones that we’re trying to figure out, right?

34:40 Are you asking about the ones that are–

34:41 - First column, then probably about–

34:43 - I think they just want a clarity on,

34:46 but I think we have it, because it’s if the chairperson

34:50 stops the speaker of an objective title for sexual content,

34:55 what Mrs. Campbell is saying is that that would be

34:58 no different than if we sent a recommendation

35:01 of a title to the board, and you guys took a vote.

35:04 - So I would argue the difference, though,

35:05 is when you have that conversation about it getting back,

35:10 because it hasn’t gone through the official policy

35:13 to be removed to put the timestamp that you want on it

35:17 in the first place, so if you’re circumventing the policy,

35:23 you’re also circumventing the things

35:24 that you guys want in place, so remember that.

35:29 - I didn’t like that being put in the law,

35:30 but it’s in the law.

35:32 - No, what I’m saying is if you don’t continue it

35:35 through the process and acknowledge that they’re already

35:38 removed off the shelves, they’ve already been discontinued,

35:41 and you don’t formally vote on it to be removed,

35:44 then you don’t have that timestamp of not having it

35:47 be re-brought into the school system again.

35:49 - So what a, I know, I know, I’m like this one,

35:52 again, we’re trying to clean up all kinds of things here,

35:55 so would maybe a good solution to this be that

35:57 that book title goes on the next board meeting

36:00 as something that’s voted on, and then it kind of

36:04 circumvents the process, but then the board

36:05 all weighs in on it.

36:08 - It depends on how, I don’t think that’s

36:10 how the policy is written. - It opens up the opportunity

36:11 to go against state law, which is, you know what I mean?

36:13 - If it’s the same as if we went through the process,

36:16 where it doesn’t have a time specific that it comes back,

36:20 that also says if it goes on our due to buy list

36:25 from the district, there is no time that it comes back.

36:28 If it’s through statute, we said what, five years?

36:30 Our policy, I mean?

36:32 So if it doesn’t go through that, it doesn’t,

36:35 it’s not five years, it’s…

36:37 - All right, we gotta clean this up, though,

36:38 and it’s not cleaned up right now,

36:39 so that’s why I’m trying to,

36:40 they’re trying to get clear direction on this.

36:41 - That’s not what the policy is.

36:42 The policy is if it’s removed

36:46 through the book committee process.

36:48 - Right. - It’s a scissor.

36:49 - Right. - So, and I’m like,

36:51 I don’t even wanna utter the words

36:52 that we need to go back to policy making on this one,

36:54 but I think it, and I’ve said it multiple times,

36:56 I don’t think we’re done touching this one.

36:57 - So I understand your emotions behind this,

37:01 and I know your opinions on this,

37:03 which obviously differ from mine,

37:05 but what I’m trying to argue here

37:06 is to make it clear and easier,

37:08 and to stop people from coming to this podium

37:10 continuously and doing this,

37:12 or prevent it as much as we can.

37:14 It’s already off the shelves.

37:16 They’re already challenged.

37:17 They’re not there anymore.

37:19 It’s already discontinued from use.

37:22 The state’s not gonna come down and go,

37:23 Brevard County, you didn’t discontinue use of these books

37:26 that are not on your shelves right now,

37:28 that are in a formal challenge

37:30 that clearly you all wanna vote to remove anyway,

37:32 so you know the end result of this.

37:34 They’re not going to do that.

37:35 That just doesn’t make any sense.

37:36 And then it goes through the process,

37:39 and then you have your timestamp,

37:40 and you’re following the policy,

37:41 and then you take away the random power

37:45 of people who don’t live here coming

37:47 to challenge these books at the podium.

37:48 That’s my argument about the discontinue use thing.

37:51 Again, we all know where we all stand on this issue.

37:53 I know what the end result’s gonna be.

37:55 - I understand that.

37:56 I would like to challenge your comment

37:58 that we clearly know where we all stand on this,

37:59 because this board has actually made the decision

38:01 to keep a couple books in

38:02 that have gone through the formal challenge,

38:04 so that’s not a very fair statement

38:05 for you to make, Ms. Jenkins.

38:06 - I’m not judging you for that.

38:07 You did say, though, you want them removed right now.

38:09 You just said it, so that is a fair statement.

38:11 You all just said you want them all removed.

38:13 That is a fair statement.

38:14 - I said if they were stopped for the content–

38:16 - Correct, so I’m not judging you for that.

38:18 I’m saying that’s what you said.

38:19 You want them removed.

38:20 That’s not an assumption.

38:21 You just said that.

38:23 - So one of the things I would say is

38:24 that if it’s removed through the process of state law,

38:27 that it should follow consistently

38:28 with what our policy is for the removal

38:30 on the other end as board members, just to be consistent.

38:32 So to keep it– - Is your mic on?

38:33 - Yep, to keep it consistent.

38:35 I think that’s what we do.

38:36 - But I think the problem is our policy

38:38 isn’t consistent with state law.

38:39 Our policy says we’re removing it

38:40 for a certain amount of time,

38:41 and state law says discontinue.

38:43 They don’t align.

38:44 - Well, then let’s make it discontinued.

38:45 - So that’s where I’m like, okay, they don’t align.

38:49 - Well, except that where the law doesn’t specify,

38:55 then that’s left up to the board to determine.

38:59 The law doesn’t say we can’t have,

39:01 it just says discontinues.

39:03 I mean, where it leaves it vague,

39:04 that’s our decision to make.

39:05 It’s one of the, there’s very few things

39:07 where the state has made it clear,

39:09 and where they don’t make it clear, it’s our decision.

39:12 They don’t make clear parent.

39:15 I would take that as if we said it has to be a parent,

39:19 you know, maybe it would be challenged

39:22 and we’d have to deal with it.

39:23 But you know, right now, you know, I’m trying to think,

39:27 you know, when I have heard the state has not come down

39:30 on any district specifically and said, you didn’t do this,

39:35 you didn’t do that,

39:35 and there’s 67 different ways this is happening.

39:39 And, but what we do have to do is report.

39:41 Whatever way we decided to do it in Brevard,

39:43 we’re reporting it.

39:44 And so I say they’re not coming down.

39:47 The legislature has come down

39:49 and then refined what the asks are in some cases,

39:53 because some districts weren’t following it.

39:55 I think where we have wiggle room,

39:56 it’s our decision to make.

39:59 And so whatever we decide today, I think we can decide.

40:02 Do we want, if this happens again, hopefully it won’t,

40:05 but if it happens again and people come and read the title,

40:07 do we want to decide as a board,

40:08 what we want staff to do as a result

40:11 of the chairman stopping them.

40:14 So I don’t actually think it’s a terrible idea

40:17 for it to, if the chairman stops them,

40:19 for it to be immediate discontinue.

40:23 I, to me, there’s definitely this,

40:25 the loss of discontinue use.

40:26 It doesn’t say removal from circulation.

40:30 So I’m taking it, I’m gonna take that back.

40:32 I mean, we can still do a vote, but–

40:35 - If you vote against it, then you break state statute,

40:38 which says to be, have it removed.

40:40 Does that make sense to you? - That’s true, yep, yep.

40:41 - So the argument is, is that we have to follow

40:43 the state statute on that angle, which is that path.

40:47 And I wanted to say thank you for correctly stating

40:49 where our ability to, you know what I mean,

40:52 navigate those waters are, as opposed to the state law.

40:55 But this one’s pretty clear, you know what I mean?

40:57 And I think that we follow that, is what I would like.

41:01 - Okay, so what is your recommendation–

41:02 - So if it is challenged, if it is challenged,

41:05 and to be honest with you, you start to get into

41:08 who’s a parent, who’s this, who’s that.

41:10 I don’t think that it has to be a parent.

41:12 I think it has to be, you know what I mean,

41:14 what is clearly defined or not defined inside the statute,

41:16 you roll with, and if anybody comes up and challenges it

41:19 and says this, if it’s inappropriate inside

41:21 of our school district to be read in front of us,

41:23 it violates what the state law is, we remove it,

41:26 and then it follows that path of being removed forever,

41:29 and then we have our other process to go through

41:31 if somebody challenges it that way.

41:33 That would be my recommendation.

41:36 Is that what you’re looking for?

41:37 - So the law does say parent, the law does say parent

41:39 for the ability to read it.

41:42 The objections say, and I don’t know if it’s

41:44 in this statute or another one,

41:45 parent or resident of the county.

41:47 - Right, and it defines resident as–

41:49 - So as far as bring an objection.

41:51 - Basically. - And our policies

41:52 are bring an objection, you can’t bring an objection

41:54 if you’re not a parent or resident of the county.

41:56 - Do they clearly define who a parent is inside,

41:58 do they clearly define who a parent is

42:00 inside of the statute?

42:02 - For which one, for the reading or for the other?

42:04 - For the reading.

42:05 - For the reading it says parent, no it doesn’t.

42:07 - So one of the issues you run into when you say a parent

42:10 is, is it because you have homeschool parents

42:13 that may have half the curriculum?

42:14 - So here’s what it says, it says each parent of a student

42:17 to whom or for whom instructional materials

42:21 have been issued.

42:24 - So that would clarify that they need to be–

42:26 - They gotta be in our school system.

42:27 - We’ve been issuing their materials.

42:29 - Wait, what part of that?

42:34 Oh, that’s the summary.

42:35 - Sorry.

42:35 - Brevard Virtual School, Brevard–

42:37 - Let me open it up in the–

42:38 - And I think that’s why we’re seeking the clarity

42:40 is we also wanna be mindful to prevent–

42:43 - Can you tell me the statute you’re in?

42:43 - Dealing with the expense of a special magistrate,

42:45 like either policy, law, or district process.

42:51 - Oh.

42:53 - I’m looking here.

42:54 - Sorry, give me one second.

43:00 - So my whole argument is that whatever decision

43:03 the majority of you decide,

43:05 it’s going to circumvent the policy that exists.

43:09 So you can’t get away with not rewriting the policy

43:12 to address these issues, that’s my argument.

43:15 So we shouldn’t be making the decisions

43:17 before you rewrite the policy.

43:19 It doesn’t make any sense.

43:20 - So here, under section 2A2,

43:26 says the district school board must adopt a policy

43:28 regarding an objection by a parent or a resident

43:30 of the county to the use of a specific material.

43:33 - Thank you.

43:34 - So that’s for our policy.

43:37 So our policy has to allow a parent

43:40 or a resident of the county.

43:44 But this, the reading of the board meeting,

43:47 it just says a parent, it’s different.

43:49 - It’s different.

43:50 - I don’t like it, the circumventing the process,

43:53 but the legislature specifically put this, like I said,

43:56 intentionally to circumvent the process.

44:04 - Wait, wait for it.

44:05 - All right, I’ll get there.

44:08 - We should go watch Ms. Adopt a Policy.

44:10 - All right, so we’re clear as much.

44:11 We need to give direction.

44:12 What do we wanna do?

44:15 - I thought we did.

44:15 These titles that–

44:17 - No, you didn’t.

44:18 - Okay, we haven’t given clear direction.

44:20 That’s very, that’s very clear.

44:21 - The titles that were stopped for sexual content

44:26 because someone read it

44:27 and you stopped them for sexual content

44:30 should be discontinued permanently as same as if,

44:34 or permanently, the same as if we voted on them.

44:39 And if that’s five years, make five years.

44:42 Because that same later on in that sentence,

44:45 ‘cause it’s all in the same paragraph,

44:47 about them reading and then also

44:48 about district school boards deciding to remove them,

44:51 it says the same language, discontinued use.

44:53 So if our policy is we’re discontinuing use for five years,

44:57 then I would say it’s for five years.

44:59 - Okay, and then the title stopped for language

45:01 that are in the blue that have been under formal objection,

45:04 we’re gonna continue the process for those.

45:07 - The district process, your process.

45:08 - Correct.

45:09 - Yes, yeah, I thought so.

45:10 - I just don’t know how we find out if it’s apparent or not.

45:12 - And then were you telling us that that one,

45:15 it’s not on the list, it was stopped for language,

45:16 you guys are gonna put that on your internal–

45:19 - Correct, yes, allegedly.

45:22 I mean, that’s the title, allegedly, yes.

45:24 (laughing)

45:29 - Okay, but we’re still not addressing the fact

45:31 that we don’t have a policy that dictates what we just did.

45:37 So that has to be addressed.

45:39 - It does say our policy does address the–

45:41 - I’m not saying you can’t do it,

45:42 I’m just saying that’s not something you should just ignore,

45:44 ‘cause it’s not gonna be the last time that this happens.

45:47 - We added that section–

45:48 - Sounds like an administrative procedure to me.

45:50 - We added that section about parents being able to read,

45:54 because when that law passed, Ms. Harris added this

45:57 on our last revision, I’m trying to find it.

46:00 - And both of those policies are coming up

46:02 on March 5th, I believe.

46:05 So we can see if we can clarify some language

46:11 that includes the statute around public speakers

46:15 that come forward.

46:16 - Is it grandparent or parent? - Right, perfect.

46:18 - It uses the same language as the law.

46:20 It says discontinue use, discontinue use,

46:22 the board, the discontinued–

46:23 - I understand that, but it doesn’t talk

46:25 about the decisions you just made right now as a board,

46:27 which you’re gonna wanna do consistently

46:30 if it happens again, that’s what I’m saying.

46:32 I understand it addresses the language of the law,

46:33 which is broad and not helpful.

46:36 - Put in administrative procedures and scroll.

46:40 - Okay, so just so that we can be clear on that,

46:43 clear what we’re gonna modify the policy for March 5th,

46:47 is we have in there the law about if a parent comes

46:49 to speak to an objective title.

46:51 So we’re going to add the same timeline that we have

46:56 for the book review committee process

46:58 that’s in policy of the five years.

47:08 - It’s L, L, the board’s decision is final for five years,

47:11 this L, and this part about parents reading it is N.

47:15 So flip the order, make the L down to the bottom

47:18 and so that it’s just clear that whatever

47:20 the board’s decision, whichever way that it got there

47:23 is final for five years.

47:25 - I think it has to specify because to stop them,

47:28 it just says discontinue, but our policy says five years.

47:31 And so when you stop them, that’s where I’m saying

47:32 this isn’t, they don’t align, they’re not consistent

47:34 and we’re gonna have an issue.

47:36 So we, you know.

47:39 - Except that here’s where I don’t necessarily agree

47:42 with that because after the, this is the new parts

47:45 that we added, after the parts that say parents

47:47 shall have a right and the district shall discontinue,

47:49 this is out of our policy now, this is straight out

47:51 of the law, but it’s in our policy.

47:53 Then the next one says if the board finds any material

47:55 meets the requirements, da-da-da-da-da,

47:57 the district shall discontinue the use.

47:59 If the board finds any material contains prohibited content

48:02 under whatever, the district shall discontinue use

48:05 for any grade level for which it’s inappropriate.

48:07 So basically it’s just the law clarifying our process

48:10 that we had just laid out in the policy

48:12 of where we’re doing it.

48:13 This is just a summary.

48:14 And then it talks about how they can hire the,

48:18 you know, go to the magistrate and all of that.

48:21 But it still then comes back to the board.

48:26 So I think somewhere in there, we’re still handling that.

48:30 To me, I’m looking at our policy now, O and P

48:34 are the descriptions of how the board

48:36 has decided to handle this process.

48:38 But the result is still discontinue use.

48:41 So if we have defined discontinue use

48:43 as we’ve made a decision of five years, that’s it.

48:49 Regardless of whichever way it happens,

48:50 discontinue use needs to be consistent

48:53 across whichever way we do it.

48:56 - And just to clarify, the policy only bars,

48:59 it bars for five years before it can be reconsidered.

49:02 - It doesn’t mean it comes back in.

49:04 It just means the board may need to reconsider that title.

49:09 - So it can be challenged again.

49:10 - Right, it’s to prevent people

49:12 from challenging it constantly

49:13 and so that the board’s constantly taking up the same title.

49:16 So that I think five years you will be fine

49:20 ‘cause that doesn’t mean it automatically

49:21 goes back on the shelves.

49:22 That just means it’s eligible to be looked at again

49:26 and that staff may wanna bring it to the board again.

49:31 - Okay, so five years.

49:33 - Okay, we’ll add that for March 5th.

49:36 - All right, ooh, I thought we were done talking about

49:40 all this fun stuff, all right, we are done.

49:42 All right, our next topic that we are on to

49:43 is an assessment update.

49:47 She thinks that’s still.

49:50 - So you should have the PowerPoint in front of you

49:52 and what we wanna share today is what is current

49:55 as of today and go into some details

49:58 around what assessments look like, K-12,

50:02 but also give some recommendations moving forward

50:05 because some things we’ve just done

50:07 because we’ve always done and then some things

50:10 we have FAST in place so we wanna have some conversation

50:13 about possible next steps.

50:15 So we’re going to start out with elementary

50:17 looking specifically by grade level

50:19 and I know this will seem tedious

50:22 but there are different legislation requirements

50:26 around interventions depending on the grade level

50:29 and subject area so that’s why we broke it

50:31 into grade levels.

50:32 But as you know, we have FAST and so in kindergarten

50:35 that is state required, the STAR early literacy

50:38 and then the STAR math three times a year.

50:41 What is currently required and I’m speaking of last year

50:45 and then I’ll speak to this year is the iReady diagnostic.

50:50 What we did last year with FAST coming out

50:52 is we made that diagnostic three optional.

50:56 And so I want to just speak for a minute

50:59 because this will be as we move through grade levels.

51:01 What FAST tells us is that a student has mastery

51:04 of that benchmark or not.

51:06 What it doesn’t tell us is if they have mastery

51:10 are they above grade level two years?

51:12 If they got that one incorrect and don’t have mastery,

51:16 it doesn’t tell us where they are.

51:18 Are they two years behind?

51:20 Are they six months behind?

51:22 And so that’s where we gather some other data.

51:25 But what Dr. Smith and I have been working

51:27 with curriculum associates as well as a consortium

51:30 of districts because once FAST came out,

51:34 it was great that for once we had three times a year

51:37 on grade level content,

51:38 we could be progress monitoring students.

51:41 But we also then a week later, we’re giving the diagnostic.

51:46 And so we understand and we agree with our stakeholders

51:50 that that was a lot on students.

51:52 And we worry about getting clean data.

51:54 If I have two weeks in a row of what some sites

51:59 we were realizing were considering that high stakes testing

52:02 that students were maybe just clicking through

52:06 and which assessment were they clicking through

52:08 and were we really getting the diagnostic data

52:10 we needed for students?

52:11 And so in working with curriculum associates,

52:14 moving forward, if we continue to partner with them,

52:18 we still need that student specific data

52:21 in order to do interventions.

52:22 But we don’t, and they agree, they don’t believe

52:25 that that needs to be in the form of a diagnostic.

52:27 And so a platform that we would like to recommend

52:31 moving forward is a lot of our students

52:33 when they go to center time.

52:35 So the teacher table is three or four students

52:37 and then students are doing different things.

52:39 A lot of our students do the instructional path on iReady.

52:43 And what that is is that is instruction and lessons

52:46 on their individual level.

52:48 And that’s a way that we can differentiate

52:50 because teachers have a variety of levels

52:52 and that’s a tool that they can use.

52:54 So instead of sitting down

52:56 and we’re gonna take the diagnostic,

52:57 when they do their instructional pathway

52:59 that meets them where they are,

53:01 they’re going to get a few items here and there

53:05 throughout that instructional pathway

53:07 that will give us very similar data that’s student specific

53:11 that we used to get on a sit down today.

53:13 We’re gonna take two days of a diagnostic

53:15 to see where you are.

53:16 And so a recommendation we have moving forward

53:19 is that we would not continue with a diagnostic

53:22 two or three times a year,

53:24 but instead consider an embedded model

53:27 where we’re able to get data on students

53:30 in reading and math that meets them where they are

53:33 without saying, okay, today we’re gonna stop and test.

53:36 And when you look at this kindergarten, you see,

53:39 we have a KLS screener.

53:41 It gives us different data.

53:43 One of the things as a team we’ve been talking about is

53:45 what are the data points of things that

53:47 as a district we’re requiring

53:49 that may be duplicative of other data points.

53:53 So with the KLS, that is where it’s one-on-one.

53:57 So the teacher is listening to that child read.

54:00 So it gives us some different data points,

54:02 but we also hear the voice of our teachers

54:04 very loud and clear.

54:06 If I’m a kindergarten teacher,

54:07 doing that five times a year individually

54:10 is consuming a whole lot of instructional time.

54:13 And so when we look at this,

54:15 our recommendations is that we would do that embedded piece

54:19 so that it’s not, you know, fast is the three times a year

54:22 and that we would do that embedded piece

54:25 for kindergarten to get that ELA and math data points

54:28 that, you know, it’s an item here and there

54:30 when they’re already on their instructional pathway,

54:32 but that we would really evaluate that literacy survey

54:36 if it truly needs to be five times a year

54:39 because it is a one-on-one assessment

54:41 and also making the recommendation

54:44 that perhaps there’s a test out.

54:46 So for some students,

54:48 they come to us reading in kindergarten.

54:51 So are we still needing to, yes, we wanna measure them,

54:54 but we have other tools

54:55 just in regular classroom instruction

54:57 where teachers can gather data on student performance

55:00 without potentially doing that survey five times.

55:04 So, but this is all current.

55:06 And when we, after we go through all the grades,

55:08 we can talk about, you know,

55:10 directives that you guys would like us to consider,

55:13 but those are just some recommendations

55:14 that we make around this.

55:17 Again, not testing for the sake of testing.

55:19 If it’s not driving instruction, why are we doing it?

55:23 Then here is where, and in the PowerPoint.

55:26 - Ms. Harris, can we go back to that slide real quick?

55:28 Just wanna summarize what I’m hearing you say is

55:31 on the right-hand column got iReady diagnostics,

55:36 both reading and math, and those will go away.

55:39 The diagnostics will go away for next year.

55:42 So that’s four test experiences that would be removed.

55:46 - Correct.

55:48 - And then the kindergarten literacy survey

55:51 could be reduced, the number of those.

55:52 - Correct.

55:54 - Okay, just wanna summarize.

55:56 Thanks.

55:58 - What’s math, boy?

56:00 - So that’s beginning of the year.

56:01 You know we like a good acronym, yes.

56:04 And we have an EOYT, that’s end of the year.

56:06 And so really, again, looking at those

56:09 to see what is the data gleaned, we wanna arm teachers

56:15 with the data they need to make decisions,

56:17 but we also want to, we’re really diving deep

56:21 into how are teachers using this data?

56:24 If it is just a chart they’re looking at,

56:26 but it’s not driving instruction tomorrow,

56:28 what is, you know, we’re taking up

56:30 some instructional time to do that.

56:31 And so really looking at when we start our kindergarteners

56:35 in Brevard, they come three days later.

56:37 And so initially, what those three days were utilized

56:40 is for that kindergarten literacy.

56:42 So parents would bring their child in for the appointment

56:44 and we would do these screeners.

56:46 And so we would know on day one

56:48 what this child comes to school, with which skills.

56:52 And what we have found is in many schools,

56:55 they’re doing some school readiness activities

56:59 during those three days, like they bring students in

57:01 to have different experiences, but that they’re,

57:03 in some cases, waiting on that literacy survey

57:06 until school has started.

57:08 Well, so we would be saying if we are gonna continue

57:11 with even the initial survey, that that happens

57:13 for those parents that bring their children in

57:16 for those appointments, knowing that not all children

57:18 come in during those three days before we start.

57:21 But that was the design when Brevard made the decision

57:24 to delay kindergarten start by three days.

57:26 It would be so we have one-on-one time with students

57:29 to set them up for success on day one.

57:36 This is where, this has been a huge aha

57:39 as we look into our optional assessments.

57:41 We have, depending on if children are going through

57:44 that MTSS process and we’re like, you know,

57:47 they’re struggling with tier one instruction,

57:49 we need to know more.

57:50 Is there more going on and we need more data?

57:53 We created a menu in both ELA and math

57:57 of here’s where we can get more information on students.

58:00 So schools at the beginning of the year

58:02 get all of these optional assessments.

58:05 But what we thought the intent was

58:07 for when you need to collect more information.

58:10 In some of our fact finding, we have found that

58:14 schools and, you know, classroom teachers

58:16 are making decisions of utilizing these.

58:18 And so what we are proposing as we go through

58:21 these optional assessments is that for ELA and math,

58:25 for sure, holding those at the district.

58:27 And so then if assistant principal says,

58:30 I, you know, we need more information on this child,

58:33 we can release those assessments.

58:35 This isn’t something we’re set in stone about,

58:37 but what we are finding is that in some classrooms,

58:40 all of our optional assessments

58:42 are being provided to students.

58:45 And how we found that is when we’re partnering,

58:47 you know, and getting teacher voice,

58:49 they’re saying, well, this is required and this is required.

58:52 And Dr. Smith and I are meeting with them

58:54 and we’re like, that’s not required.

58:56 And sure enough, we’re going into performance matters

58:58 and there’s data there.

59:00 And so we just want to kind of reign this in

59:02 because you can do an assessment every single day,

59:05 but if you’re not teaching in between assessments,

59:08 the data is not going to change.

59:10 And so we were thinking of pulling those back

59:13 and having them, we’ve built them all,

59:15 but having them on an as needed basis.

59:18 If a child is going through MTSS

59:21 and we need to collect more information,

59:23 then we can release some of those.

59:24 Or, you know, we can release them to school administration,

59:27 but with very careful guidelines of this is not just for,

59:31 if I want to give all of these assessments,

59:34 that that’s not without conversation first.

59:36 - Can I clarify?

59:38 - Yes.

59:39 - So this page, because some of these,

59:40 like a unit assessment seems like that would be like,

59:42 that’s the end of the chapter test, right?

59:44 So you’re, are you saying that you would pull those back?

59:46 It seems like that in a course of study,

59:48 that’s pretty normal, right?

59:50 You finish a unit on fractions

59:52 and you’re going to have a fraction test.

59:55 That wouldn’t preclude the teacher from having their own.

59:58 This is not the one that’s,

59:59 is this the one that’s attached to the curriculum

1:00:02 or attached to the instructional materials?

1:00:04 - Correct.

1:00:04 So what we did is we picked out the items

1:00:07 that were most critically, the heavily assessed

1:00:11 or what you need to know by the end of that grade.

1:00:13 So we know we have all the benchmarks,

1:00:14 but here are the ones that you absolutely have to have

1:00:16 to be successful.

1:00:17 And that’s where we made the quarterly assessments.

1:00:21 And so in lieu of taking a unit,

1:00:24 so every nine weeks,

1:00:25 there’s an assessment that students could take.

1:00:28 What we are finding is they’re doing the quarterly,

1:00:31 but then they’re also doing unit assessments.

1:00:33 And when we’re having conversation with teachers,

1:00:36 they’re saying, well, I need grades.

1:00:38 And I go back to,

1:00:41 there are things that we can do as a district.

1:00:43 If it’s a matter of grades that you’re doing this,

1:00:46 you really want to see where that student’s performance is,

1:00:48 we can give a child two or three questions

1:00:50 and you know quickly, do they have it or do they not?

1:00:53 Unit assessment for the sake of grades,

1:00:56 again, good intent by our teachers.

1:00:58 They want to have data on their students,

1:01:00 but with the quarterly and the unit assessments,

1:01:04 what we are finding is those are all in use.

1:01:06 And so to your point, yes, we want to say,

1:01:08 okay, we studied fractions, where do they know?

1:01:11 What we built in the unit assessments is we took out,

1:01:14 here are some items on improper fractions

1:01:16 and here are some items so that we’re taking out pieces.

1:01:19 And in that nine weeks,

1:01:21 they’re having a snapshot of what they know.

1:01:24 When we get to science and social studies,

1:01:26 and again, you’re gonna see a lot of this duplicates

1:01:29 as we go through grade levels.

1:01:31 But one thing I do want you to keep in mind is in Florida,

1:01:35 our fifth grade students take the science assessment.

1:01:38 That is currently the one and only time

1:01:40 we know what our students know in science

1:01:43 as far as on an assessment.

1:01:44 So we have optional assessments

1:01:47 and what these have been built are for,

1:01:49 there are four or five questions that a student could take

1:01:52 of what they know for their grade level.

1:01:54 These have always been optional.

1:01:57 They are not heavily utilized, nor are the social studies,

1:02:02 but none of them are required.

1:02:03 What we do want to just consider is

1:02:07 when I take that science state assessment in fifth grade,

1:02:10 the standards being tested are what I was taught

1:02:13 in third, fourth, and fifth.

1:02:15 And so we would like to, as we move through,

1:02:18 just have some conversation about

1:02:20 how can we get some snapshots around science

1:02:23 because you know what I know about our fifth grade data.

1:02:27 That’s the first time I know

1:02:28 how our students are doing in science.

1:02:30 But we also, again, have all of these,

1:02:34 a lot of science little quizzes that we have found

1:02:37 are being overutilized in some cases.

1:02:42 So when we go into first grade,

1:02:43 you’ll see a lot of this is similar,

1:02:45 remembering that this year we have a diagnostic one

1:02:48 and a diagnostic two for iReady,

1:02:50 that that would go away as we know it

1:02:53 with our recommendation for next school year.

1:02:56 In first grade, I want to bring your attention

1:02:59 to the Brevard benchmark assessments.

1:03:02 And there are components within that that assess fluency.

1:03:06 And we are open to being mindful

1:03:09 of what our student experience is,

1:03:11 but we don’t want to take away the fluency checker.

1:03:14 So there are parts of that assessment

1:03:16 that we feel we can get from both fast

1:03:19 and ongoing classroom information.

1:03:22 But that fluency,

1:03:23 if you’re looking at the science of reading,

1:03:25 that fluency piece in first and second grade,

1:03:28 that is our indicator that says

1:03:30 this child will be ready to read to learn by third grade.

1:03:33 And so what is required by the state for our RAISE schools,

1:03:37 so our RAISE intensive schools,

1:03:39 they have a monthly fluency check.

1:03:41 Once a student meets the number of words per minute,

1:03:44 they’re not assessed again.

1:03:46 But that is monthly for our RAISE schools.

1:03:48 And remembering that those are our most fragile schools

1:03:51 with reading proficiency.

1:03:53 For our other schools, that has been quarterly.

1:03:56 But we just, if we were to remove also

1:04:00 that benchmark assessment,

1:04:01 we would like to maintain a fluency check.

1:04:04 That’s one piece of that assessment

1:04:06 that we feel strongly a fluency check

1:04:09 is the one time a teacher gets to listen

1:04:11 to that child reading to see,

1:04:13 is it an issue with comprehension

1:04:15 or can they not decode the words?

1:04:19 - I’m just gonna jump in here ‘cause it’s,

1:04:21 I mean, I could say this for every grade level,

1:04:23 but the benefit of keeping some of these

1:04:25 that you’re talking about is that the STAR and FAST

1:04:31 when we get to the older grades and iReady

1:04:33 are all on the computer.

1:04:35 And these other district assessments

1:04:37 that you’re talking about, many, many, if not all,

1:04:41 are the ones we’ve highlighted, these benchmarks,

1:04:43 these are the teacher sitting next to the kid,

1:04:48 and some students are going to have an advantage

1:04:51 or a disadvantage strictly based on

1:04:53 whether they’re on a computer or not.

1:04:56 So I think it’s important for us to appreciate

1:04:58 the work that you’re doing to make sure

1:04:59 that we have some of this so that we can find

1:05:02 that a kid actually can be successful.

1:05:04 They just can’t be successful with the equipment,

1:05:07 which is why it really makes me sad,

1:05:09 even though I understand why it makes me sad

1:05:10 when we went to paper pencil and we left paper pencil

1:05:14 a couple years later to go to this,

1:05:15 because some students really just,

1:05:18 the temptation is too easy to click, click, click, click,

1:05:22 computer version of a Christmas tree to get through it.

1:05:26 So having some kind of one-on-one or small group evaluations

1:05:31 is really important is what I’m getting.

1:05:34 - And here’s what I can tell you.

1:05:36 As a prior third grade teacher,

1:05:38 I’m looking at data as a third grade teacher,

1:05:41 and I can’t always, they’re not answering

1:05:44 the questions right, but when we dive deep,

1:05:46 oftentimes it’s not that the students

1:05:48 can’t make meaning of the text.

1:05:50 They cannot decode the words.

1:05:53 So they have that first and second grade,

1:05:55 when we think of that early literacy and importance,

1:05:58 by third grade they’ve learned enough to compensate,

1:06:01 and so you’ll hear parents say,

1:06:04 my child’s reading every night, I don’t understand,

1:06:07 but is it, are they reading the right words?

1:06:09 Like sometimes they will look,

1:06:10 and that’s when you’ll see a child with a picture of mouse,

1:06:13 the word is mouse, and they say rat,

1:06:17 and they think they have it right,

1:06:18 because they look at the picture queuing,

1:06:19 and that’s why in legislation that part went away.

1:06:22 So some of this one-on-one just gives us good data,

1:06:25 and maybe not for all students,

1:06:27 but as we need to know more about certain students

1:06:30 to better intervene on where they are.

1:06:35 So when you move into second grade, again, very similar,

1:06:38 you’ll see for our requirements, again, D1, D2, D3,

1:06:43 we did as an option last year,

1:06:45 and a lot of our schools still picked that up

1:06:47 and were doing it.

1:06:49 We have continued with that that is an option for this year,

1:06:52 and then moving forward that these would be removed

1:06:56 as we know it with an embedded model.

1:06:59 Again, going into those optional pieces here,

1:07:02 when we start to go into third grade,

1:07:05 that’s where things become a little different,

1:07:07 because remember, third grade is where we’re looking

1:07:09 at statutory language around student progression,

1:07:12 and we wanna make sure that students have

1:07:14 more than one pathway to get to fourth grade,

1:07:17 and so we call it their ticket to fourth grade.

1:07:19 We know one way is to score proficiency

1:07:21 on that FAST assessment,

1:07:23 but we know for a variety of reasons,

1:07:26 many of our students rely on that portfolio,

1:07:28 and so when we look at that Bevard benchmark assessment,

1:07:31 while we’ve kind of had some discussion with teachers

1:07:35 about what is the value of that,

1:07:37 is it driving their instruction in some of the grades,

1:07:40 in third grade, that is approved pieces

1:07:43 for that third grade portfolio,

1:07:45 so if a student were to come at the end of third grade

1:07:48 and not be proficient on the FAST test,

1:07:50 we have those artifacts that can be their ticket

1:07:53 to a good cause to fourth grade,

1:07:55 and so that is something when we think

1:07:57 around those quarter one, two, and three assessments

1:08:01 that we’re being very mindful.

1:08:03 Again, when we look at an embedded,

1:08:05 if doing away with the diagnostic,

1:08:07 but having an embedded model,

1:08:10 we would still have a data point,

1:08:12 ‘cause the state gives us different criteria

1:08:14 of how students can go to fourth grade to show mastery.

1:08:17 One is FAST, one is a portfolio,

1:08:20 the other is an alternate assessment,

1:08:23 which curriculum associates with iReady,

1:08:24 so that we would have a score,

1:08:26 even though they’re not sitting and taking the diagnostic,

1:08:29 with those embedded items, we’re gonna still get a number

1:08:32 that could then be a ticket to fourth grade,

1:08:35 for our third graders, ‘cause so that’s the only difference

1:08:38 when we get to this area.

1:08:41 The other is, I’ll bring your attention here

1:08:43 to when we go to third grade,

1:08:46 we did some work around science a couple years ago,

1:08:50 because we had districts that were moving faster

1:08:53 than we were, and that’s when we started looking

1:08:56 at how can the penda lessons align,

1:08:59 so these are all optional, but what we have done,

1:09:03 since our materials aren’t aligned

1:09:05 to the benchmarks currently,

1:09:07 ‘cause we’re coming up on adoption in a couple of years,

1:09:10 the penda can kind of take the place,

1:09:12 not computer-based instruction, but there are lesson plans,

1:09:15 lessons and activities that we have embedded

1:09:17 into our curriculum guides,

1:09:19 but this is where we do encourage schools.

1:09:22 At some point, you need to figure out,

1:09:26 using some of these optionals,

1:09:27 which of these benchmarks for third grade

1:09:29 your children have, because they’re not gonna take

1:09:31 a state assessment until fifth grade,

1:09:33 and it’s unfair for our fifth grade teachers

1:09:36 to hold them accountable for a test score in fifth grade

1:09:39 that is heavily those third and fourth standards,

1:09:41 with actually very few that are assessed,

1:09:44 that are taught in fifth grade,

1:09:45 so we just wanna make sure our third

1:09:47 and fourth grade teachers, and I understand it,

1:09:49 third grade teacher, it’s all about getting them to read,

1:09:52 you know, on grade level,

1:09:53 but we want to make sure that they have options

1:09:57 for gathering data around science

1:09:59 for third and fourth grade as well,

1:10:01 but again, these are all optional.

1:10:04 Fourth grade, you could say exactly all the words

1:10:07 I’m gonna say, because you’ve seen this,

1:10:09 and you’ve heard me over and over for all these grades,

1:10:11 but we do have a state assessment in fourth grade

1:10:14 that is the best writing, so that occurs in April,

1:10:18 so our students begin to take a writing assessment,

1:10:20 so you’ll see when you move to the district required,

1:10:23 we have a three times a year writing assessment

1:10:26 that’s preparing.

1:10:27 Again, teacher feedback says, you know,

1:10:30 is that driving instruction?

1:10:32 And so really looking at do we continue

1:10:34 with a district writing assessment three times a year

1:10:38 to prepare for a state writing assessment?

1:10:40 Is it truly driving instruction?

1:10:43 What are teachers doing?

1:10:45 And there is a teacher voice

1:10:47 that is not valuing a three times a year assessment

1:10:51 for writing.

1:10:53 A recommendation I would make is, you know,

1:10:55 if we’re doing a writing assessment

1:10:57 in the first few weeks of school,

1:11:00 I would be okay with recommending that we abandon that

1:11:03 because most of our students

1:11:04 haven’t had formal writing instruction

1:11:07 that will be similar to what they’re assessed on,

1:11:08 so I don’t need to give them an assessment

1:11:10 when I kind of could predict what that data may be

1:11:13 when I could in turn spend the time teaching

1:11:16 the writing instruction.

1:11:23 When we get to fifth grade,

1:11:24 the state adds in that science assessment.

1:11:27 Again, we have all optional

1:11:29 when it comes to science and social studies,

1:11:31 so that state assessment is currently our first time

1:11:35 where we have any science information on our students.

1:11:43 And then you will see sixth grade,

1:11:44 it reverts back at the state level to ELA and math

1:11:47 and with the addition of the writing.

1:11:53 - Can I go back to the PENDA?

1:11:56 - Yes.

1:11:57 - So that’s, so right now those are optional.

1:12:02 I mean, they’re using PENDA and they have that option,

1:12:06 I guess it’s not required.

1:12:07 We’re paying for it for all the schools,

1:12:09 so they can do, it’s kind of like an iReady for science,

1:12:11 right, where it’s individual to the students.

1:12:14 If they can have PENDA time. - Yes and no.

1:12:17 So it is where it gives them opportunity

1:12:20 to refresh standards that they don’t have,

1:12:23 so that it has that component.

1:12:25 But what it also has is lessons for direct instruction.

1:12:28 And that’s why we’ve really advocated for PENDA

1:12:32 because we’ve seen it work.

1:12:34 But it also has been very helpful

1:12:36 because yes, there’s the computer piece,

1:12:38 but what we did is where our current

1:12:41 instructional materials don’t hit the benchmark

1:12:43 strong enough, we’ve been able to embed that.

1:12:46 So it’s not a case of like with iReady,

1:12:48 we recommend 45 minutes of ELA instructional pathway.

1:12:53 We don’t recommend that for math

1:12:54 and we have no recommendation of minutes for PENDA

1:12:57 ‘cause there are only so many minutes in the school day.

1:13:00 But what we do say is, okay, during science time,

1:13:02 if you have a 45 minute to an hour science block,

1:13:05 here are lessons that you could be utilizing in PENDA

1:13:09 that can support where our textbook has gaps and holes.

1:13:14 - But we’re not requiring them to do that.

1:13:15 - So it has the my pathway like iReady,

1:13:16 but it also has the instructional lessons.

1:13:18 - Okay, thank you.

1:13:23 - And then for sixth grade, you’ll see it’s very similar.

1:13:30 We’ve included the link on the PowerPoint that’s uploaded.

1:13:34 And that is where we list everything

1:13:37 that is both required and optional.

1:13:39 And if you click on that list, it is very lengthy.

1:13:44 And that is where we’re absolutely recommending,

1:13:47 when we’ve had conversation is we’re putting it out there

1:13:51 so that if schools need something,

1:13:53 we’ve created it and they have it.

1:13:56 We want to be very mindful of,

1:13:59 is it potentially being misused?

1:14:01 And I give the example everyone knows,

1:14:03 if you get on the scale every day,

1:14:05 but you don’t change what you do in the 24 hours,

1:14:08 the number is not going to change in the manner you want.

1:14:11 And that’s how I feel about assessment

1:14:12 is we can assess every day

1:14:14 and collect some really great data.

1:14:16 But if we don’t prioritize the instructional time,

1:14:20 the data point numbers are not going to trend

1:14:22 in the direction that we are wanting.

1:14:25 But I just caution you when you click on that link,

1:14:27 remember those include everything possible that we have.

1:14:31 - So can we pause for just a second

1:14:33 just to talk about this for a minute?

1:14:34 Okay, I mean, when we look at these assessments for it,

1:14:38 and we’re going, I mean, kindergarten,

1:14:39 there’s 18 there, first grade, there’s 16.

1:14:42 These are district and state,

1:14:45 second grade, 16, third grade, 16, fourth grade, 20.

1:14:48 And then it goes up from there.

1:14:50 These are, this isn’t including spelling words.

1:14:53 This isn’t including quizzes.

1:14:55 This isn’t including, so honestly, this is,

1:14:57 I’m so thankful that you guys are looking at this

1:14:59 because I do feel like our teachers are bogged down

1:15:02 with just assessing, assessing, assessing,

1:15:03 not able to teach, and our kids are stressed.

1:15:06 I mean, they are.

1:15:07 So speaking from having my own kids in the school system,

1:15:09 they’re like, I have a test, I have a test every single day.

1:15:12 And I’m like, how do you have a test every single day?

1:15:14 Like, when is there ever time to teach anybody anything?

1:15:16 So I’m very grateful

1:15:18 that you are taking a deep dive on this.

1:15:20 I think this will be honestly tremendous for our teachers.

1:15:23 I believe they’re gonna probably sing praises

1:15:25 for years to come over this work

1:15:26 that you’re doing right here.

1:15:27 So thank you for looking at it and researching it.

1:15:29 I’m looking forward to getting these numbers down

1:15:31 to where it’s not test fatigue for our kids all the time, so.

1:15:36 - I have an eye-ready question.

1:15:38 So we have purchased the toolbox

1:15:41 that teachers can use lessons from for small group

1:15:44 or for class instruction if they see a deficiency

1:15:48 across most of the class.

1:15:51 Will the embedded piece still give them,

1:15:56 will they still, will that still tag

1:15:58 some of those toolbox things for them

1:16:01 in the same way that the diagnostics did?

1:16:04 - It will.

1:16:05 We have been meeting with them.

1:16:08 They’re probably sick of meeting with us

1:16:10 because we keep, we’re saying here’s what our teachers value.

1:16:13 We have heard loud and clear they value toolbox

1:16:16 because I can customize instruction and it’s already there.

1:16:19 I don’t have to go find a workbook.

1:16:20 I don’t have to go do this.

1:16:22 I can click on Tara Harris and see here’s what she has,

1:16:25 here’s what she doesn’t,

1:16:26 and click on the PDFs that are already prepared in toolbox.

1:16:30 And so the reporting teachers will have

1:16:33 will be the exact same.

1:16:34 The difference is on the student experience side.

1:16:39 And we’ve noticed it.

1:16:41 We’ve heard, we’ve said repeatedly in this room,

1:16:45 eye-ready diagnostic is not high stakes,

1:16:47 should not be high stakes,

1:16:48 yet then we’ll see get a good breakfast and go to bed early

1:16:52 and students feel that as high stakes.

1:16:54 So we know our teachers value that data reporting

1:16:58 and they will have all of that.

1:16:59 The student experience will be I’m doing my MyPathway

1:17:02 right where I am and every once in a while

1:17:04 I’m gonna get a couple items

1:17:06 that are gonna give me that data point.

1:17:09 And so we will be, I believe they said

1:17:11 in like a four to six window at the beginning of the year,

1:17:14 we will have all that same reporting with access to toolbox

1:17:18 as well as access to standards mastery,

1:17:20 all of the same pieces that can be driven

1:17:23 by that student data.

1:17:24 So the data will still be individualized.

1:17:26 - Okay, thank you.

1:17:28 - All right, may I go?

1:17:29 - Yeah.

1:17:30 - I wanted to say thank you.

1:17:34 A good instructor knows where their children are at

1:17:36 inside of their classes.

1:17:38 Even when I taught American history,

1:17:40 I had 150 kids to 120 kids depending on the year.

1:17:43 I knew exactly where they were inside of the curriculum.

1:17:47 And the problem you have is when those kids take a test,

1:17:50 it’s very difficult to pull them in

1:17:53 and then do instructional either before or after it also

1:17:55 because they’re prepping for it

1:17:57 and then afterwards they’re fried, right?

1:17:59 So you lose those entire days just based on that.

1:18:02 And you lose that ability to connect to them

1:18:04 and get down to the root of, okay,

1:18:06 what do we need to do to get it to the next level?

1:18:08 And I really appreciate, ‘cause when I look at this,

1:18:12 I don’t just see tests.

1:18:13 I also see days of instructions

1:18:15 that are given back to our instructors.

1:18:17 And I think that that’s the most important thing

1:18:18 when we start moving towards, you know what I mean,

1:18:22 this testing cycle and stuff like that.

1:18:24 I have some followup questions

1:18:26 at the end of the presentation,

1:18:27 but I just wanted to say thank you so much

1:18:29 for what you’re doing.

1:18:32 - Yeah, I have something to add.

1:18:33 So I just, I do wanna thank you for bringing up the fact

1:18:37 that if you continuously get data,

1:18:38 there’s no time for the teaching, right?

1:18:39 And we all know that and our teachers know that too.

1:18:42 But it’s just the culture and the pressure that they have,

1:18:45 you know, when their salaries are tied

1:18:48 to assessment results for a long time,

1:18:50 when there’s pressure from administration

1:18:52 because that administration also feels pressure

1:18:53 to show performance and growth within their school as well.

1:18:57 So not only taking a deep dive on this

1:18:58 just to mitigate the experience for our students,

1:19:01 but it is mitigating that experience for our teachers

1:19:03 and relieving a little bit of that stress and burden

1:19:05 and ultimately the administrators too, right?

1:19:08 So I appreciate that.

1:19:10 But the other piece too

1:19:11 that I think is really, really critical

1:19:12 is how you address the fact that some of these tools

1:19:17 are intentionally to monitor where our students are.

1:19:21 And so if we’re giving them in the beginning of the year

1:19:23 and assessing something that they should have completed

1:19:25 by the end of the year, there’s value in that.

1:19:27 But if we don’t have to do that,

1:19:29 there’s also significant value

1:19:30 in not depressing the confidence of that student.

1:19:33 And unfortunately,

1:19:34 that’s kind of what we’ve continuously been doing

1:19:36 even with the progress monitoring testing that we have.

1:19:39 We see value in that, don’t get me wrong,

1:19:41 but there are plenty of students

1:19:42 who feel like they’re not achieving

1:19:44 because they’re not hitting,

1:19:45 they just don’t understand that concept

1:19:46 that they shouldn’t be there yet.

1:19:48 So I appreciate you acknowledging that

1:19:50 and just reiterating that to our teachers

1:19:53 and our administrators.

1:19:54 My daughter’s only in second grade.

1:19:57 She probably has a little test anxiety.

1:19:59 I mean, I can see it already,

1:20:00 but for her to already talk about things like iReady

1:20:02 in first grade and second grade

1:20:04 and have like her own self fear behind it,

1:20:06 that’s sad, that’s concerning.

1:20:08 And I know she’s not the only one

1:20:09 and it’s not her teacher’s fault.

1:20:11 It’s definitely her nature too.

1:20:12 But it’s just something we need to be conscious of

1:20:14 for our students that we’re aiming towards them learning,

1:20:16 not just assessing them.

1:20:17 So thank you.

1:20:23 - So when we move on to secondary,

1:20:26 they, as you know, have a lot more state assessments

1:20:29 by content area.

1:20:30 So you’ll see on the left side,

1:20:31 those are our state required.

1:20:33 And then we have district created

1:20:37 because for the algebra geometry,

1:20:40 they only have that EOC.

1:20:41 So they don’t have the FAST

1:20:42 of progress monitoring along the way.

1:20:44 So we have a district assessment

1:20:46 that for those courses can tell teachers,

1:20:49 okay, mid year, does the student have half of the content

1:20:53 or where are they with what we’ve already taught,

1:20:55 is the content they’re missing,

1:20:56 the content that we’ll be teaching before that EOC,

1:20:59 kind of like a progress monitoring tool is along the way.

1:21:03 - Is that maps?

1:21:05 - Yes.

1:21:06 And then when you go in, we have a lot of optional again.

1:21:11 It’s a different feeling, I will say in my experience now

1:21:15 spending more time in secondary schools.

1:21:17 It’s just not the same where they’re giving

1:21:20 as many district assessments.

1:21:21 There’s not a feeling of as many assessments

1:21:25 that they have them available,

1:21:27 but they’re just not, I don’t have the same caution.

1:21:30 I deal with some of our other optional

1:21:32 when I compare elementary to secondary.

1:21:34 But these are the ones that are all available.

1:21:40 Any questions on secondary

1:21:43 or the whole K-12 assessment package?

1:21:46 - Mr. Susan, I think you said you had some questions

1:21:48 or comments to make.

1:21:49 - Yeah, I just part of,

1:21:52 so I’ve been speaking to a lot of teachers

1:21:54 and stuff like that recently.

1:21:55 And one of the related to our tests,

1:21:59 they’re saying that the windows of when we can test

1:22:02 at the end of the year,

1:22:04 we are testing at the beginning of those windows.

1:22:07 Is that consistent with what you’re,

1:22:09 as a teacher, I always tried to stretch

1:22:11 when I could make that test

1:22:13 because what ends up happening ultimately is everybody gets

1:22:17 into that test mode near the end.

1:22:20 And if it’s say May 2nd is the day of the tests

1:22:24 or April 2nd, if we’re able to push it later

1:22:28 into the end of the year, when the test starts hitting,

1:22:32 the conversation starts hitting,

1:22:33 there’s more time to actually drill them basically.

1:22:37 And I didn’t know if that was something

1:22:39 that you guys had done.

1:22:41 I have it written down in specific dates

1:22:43 and stuff like that,

1:22:44 but they were concerned that we were testing

1:22:46 in the available window earlier than later.

1:22:48 Is there a reason for that?

1:22:49 I’m sorry.

1:22:50 - So what we’ve done this year is Nada brings in

1:22:53 from the elementary side and secondary side,

1:22:56 testing coordinators, principals, assistant principals

1:22:59 to a cadre because the state has the testing window.

1:23:03 And then we identify

1:23:04 ‘cause we actually have a uniform testing calendar

1:23:07 that we submit to the DOE.

1:23:08 And so she brings them in.

1:23:10 And so in some cases, we’ve had school leaders say,

1:23:16 kindergarten, they need to be doing it

1:23:17 at the beginning of May,

1:23:18 the closer we get to the last day of school.

1:23:20 So there’s kind of conversations around that.

1:23:23 We can absolutely revisit that if there is a concern of,

1:23:28 if I only had two more weeks of instruction,

1:23:30 what that could look like on the outcome.

1:23:33 This is especially important when we’re thinking

1:23:35 around the FAST student, the students taking the FAST,

1:23:38 because that mid-year assessment,

1:23:40 some of the window is before winter break

1:23:42 and some of it is after winter break.

1:23:44 And you have two different philosophies.

1:23:46 You have some that say,

1:23:48 I wanna have the assessment before the winter break.

1:23:50 And then some will say, no,

1:23:52 they’re excited about the holidays.

1:23:54 I want it afterwards.

1:23:56 So she does have a cadre,

1:23:57 but we can absolutely look at that.

1:23:59 - It was, and it was specific to the April, May areas.

1:24:03 So I’ll get those, that email to you.

1:24:05 I just didn’t know if that was something that,

1:24:06 and that’s already set for this year,

1:24:08 but it might be something we look at for next year.

1:24:10 - Absolutely, and we are already starting to look at that,

1:24:12 especially when we think of grades like fifth

1:24:14 or the high schools where they’re taking

1:24:15 multiple assessments, assigning the day

1:24:18 so that students aren’t doing back to back.

1:24:20 - Cool, thank you.

1:24:22 - All right, forward, any other questions

1:24:25 in regards to this?

1:24:27 Dr. Rendell, do you need to–

1:24:27 - Chair, I just wanted to point out,

1:24:29 going through the presentation,

1:24:30 I counted 30 assessments that our district required

1:24:34 that we would be removing,

1:24:36 and 12 others that possibly could be removed.

1:24:39 So I just wanted the stakeholders,

1:24:40 Ms. Harris mentioned the stakeholders earlier,

1:24:43 that’s parents, that’s students, and that’s teachers.

1:24:46 You know, we’ve heard from the stakeholders

1:24:48 that there seems to be too much testing.

1:24:52 So her team, you know, talked to people doing the work,

1:24:55 and some of the testing was not necessarily required,

1:24:59 that maybe they thought was required,

1:25:02 so we can clarify that.

1:25:04 But there was some, were some required assessments

1:25:07 that will no longer be required.

1:25:09 So, you know, we don’t wanna stop assessing,

1:25:12 ‘cause we wanna measure our progress,

1:25:14 but it was clear in her presentation

1:25:16 that we can over assess and cut out time for teaching,

1:25:21 which is the opposite of what the result is that we want.

1:25:24 So appreciate the work that everybody’s doing,

1:25:27 but one of the messages you get out of the stakeholders

1:25:29 is that we heard you.

1:25:31 That this thought, this feedback, there’s too much testing.

1:25:35 Well, we stopped and took a look at it,

1:25:37 and we’re gonna do something about it.

1:25:39 - And I think that part of this also is

1:25:41 is to communicate this effectively to our stakeholders

1:25:44 that this is happening.

1:25:46 You know, Bruin running the communications to,

1:25:48 you know, parents, our news articles, everything else,

1:25:51 ‘cause it’s been years.

1:25:53 I mean, for seven years I’ve been on this board,

1:25:55 and we’ve been talking about over testing,

1:25:56 and what’s required and what’s not,

1:25:58 and this will be the biggest significant step towards that,

1:26:00 and I appreciate you.

1:26:01 That’s all.

1:26:03 - So I know our pacing guides have these steps along the way

1:26:07 or stops along the way.

1:26:08 So then will those pacing guides also be redone

1:26:12 so that they’ll give them a little more breathing room,

1:26:14 but also they can get more content in there along the way?

1:26:18 - We will revise them,

1:26:19 because right now we have some of those assessment windows

1:26:22 built in to the pacing guides

1:26:24 where they would naturally fall.

1:26:26 And so the one that will be the least impacted,

1:26:30 so will be that third grade.

1:26:32 So we, in our pacing guide, we already put,

1:26:34 here’s where our portfolio piece,

1:26:36 and we link it right there.

1:26:37 So that would be the one that’s the least modified,

1:26:40 but all the other ones will be modified

1:26:42 to give back that instructional time.

1:26:46 - Thank you, thank you for all the hard work

1:26:48 that you’re doing here.

1:26:49 This will be good for everyone all the way around.

1:26:51 All right, our last topic that we have on the agenda

1:26:54 is the modified school calendar.

1:26:57 That’s what I did there.

1:26:58 The year-round school pilot for Challenger Seven Elementary.

1:27:02 - It’s the Miss Harris show.

1:27:03 - Yes, yes.

1:27:05 - You’ll hear my voice and your nightmares.

1:27:08 So today I just wanna share kind of our process.

1:27:10 As you’re aware, we were one of the districts selected

1:27:14 for the year-round pilot through the DOE,

1:27:17 and we applied, I think, back in October, November,

1:27:20 kind of thinking that we’d hear back before winter break,

1:27:23 and that didn’t happen.

1:27:24 So we’re trying to play catch-up,

1:27:26 so we wanna inform the board

1:27:27 so we can get some direction on next steps,

1:27:30 because this takes everyone in the room

1:27:33 to get this off the ground with success.

1:27:35 So kind of just background of why,

1:27:38 and a lot of this you know,

1:27:40 the Challenger Seven school community

1:27:42 was once a year-round school,

1:27:44 and a lot of the staff remain.

1:27:45 A lot of the parents of the school were stakeholders,

1:27:49 either as a student themselves

1:27:50 or had siblings that went through that.

1:27:52 So there was a want from the staff and community input.

1:27:56 And then our selection,

1:27:58 being selected as one of the pilot schools,

1:28:00 led us to begin this process.

1:28:03 So next steps at that point included really surveying.

1:28:07 We went and met Dr. Rendell, Mr. Ramer, myself, Mrs. Wright.

1:28:12 We went and met with both the staff and the families,

1:28:15 and we put out quite a few surveys for them.

1:28:18 And so I wanna just go over the staff input

1:28:21 and the community input around would they,

1:28:25 are they embracing this possible change?

1:28:27 So if you see the staff,

1:28:30 currently it’s like all but one staff member

1:28:33 is very much on board with moving in this direction.

1:28:36 And this includes teachers,

1:28:37 but also our support staff members.

1:28:40 If we look at parents,

1:28:42 and we’ve even updated this with current data

1:28:45 since that parent meeting,

1:28:47 you see that there is a large majority of our parents

1:28:50 that are requesting this change.

1:28:54 At the meeting, it was interesting.

1:28:56 Some parents came with some concerns,

1:28:58 but after hearing from the teachers,

1:29:00 they understood what the teachers were saying,

1:29:03 and I think it allayed some of their concerns.

1:29:07 What I want to let you take a minute to look at

1:29:10 is what this would mean for students,

1:29:13 but also as we start to consider staff allocations.

1:29:16 So when we see, we went survey by survey,

1:29:19 and while it wasn’t every family at the school,

1:29:23 we did have a large turnout

1:29:24 if you think that their enrollment

1:29:26 is a little less than 500.

1:29:28 And so we got to talk to a lot

1:29:29 of the challenger stakeholders.

1:29:31 But when we look at some grade levels,

1:29:34 when you look at that no column,

1:29:36 that is about one class that would be exiting the school.

1:29:40 When we think of that,

1:29:42 what we have talked about if the district decides,

1:29:45 you know, if the board recommends that we move forward,

1:29:48 we would be looking at offering spots

1:29:50 to the nearby schools at both Atlantis and Enterprise.

1:29:55 Currently, as far as capacity,

1:29:57 they could absorb these numbers.

1:29:59 It would then start looking at allocations.

1:30:02 So our, but I just want you to see the numbers,

1:30:04 ‘cause as we talk about next steps,

1:30:07 this gives you an idea

1:30:08 of what it would look like per grade level.

1:30:13 We also asked our stakeholders if the, you know,

1:30:17 if this is not an option that works for your family,

1:30:20 what is your why?

1:30:21 Because that would help us problem solve next steps

1:30:23 for the families.

1:30:24 So you see the data here is a lot of this was scheduled.

1:30:28 In full transparency, when we put this survey out,

1:30:31 the beginning of the window,

1:30:33 they didn’t have the tentative calendar yet,

1:30:35 because we were literally building the airplane

1:30:37 as we were flying it in that initial stage.

1:30:40 But then we went back in and got more data,

1:30:42 and we, once we had pushed out the tentative draft calendar.

1:30:49 In our survey feedback, so we had the parent survey,

1:30:52 the staff survey, but we also had an email address

1:30:54 for any stakeholder that could email me directly

1:30:57 with any feedback.

1:30:59 But it was very important that they maintain

1:31:01 the current holidays within the traditional calendar.

1:31:05 And some of that was because they might have siblings

1:31:07 in schools that were on a traditional calendar,

1:31:09 or they were employed at sites.

1:31:12 And so that was a very strong feedback we received.

1:31:15 It was also important that they wanted us

1:31:18 to consider having childcare,

1:31:19 so having our before and aftercare programs

1:31:22 run during intersessions.

1:31:24 And that would just be because if they were reliant

1:31:27 on siblings that were on a traditional calendar,

1:31:29 that we’d wanna consider that.

1:31:31 Another piece in the feedback was providing

1:31:35 what we call academic support or enrichment opportunities

1:31:38 that we have offered in the summer,

1:31:40 that we could offer some of those activities

1:31:42 during these intersession breaks.

1:31:44 And then obviously being mindful of families

1:31:48 that have students in two different calendar types

1:31:51 of schools when making the calendar.

1:31:57 So you have the draft calendar in front of you,

1:31:59 and it has lots of color coding and shading.

1:32:02 But kind of the highlights is this would begin

1:32:05 with students on July 22nd.

1:32:07 If you were here when Challenger 7 was last year round,

1:32:11 you might remember an earlier start,

1:32:13 so there was about a five week June summer.

1:32:17 But knowing that we were turning on this with,

1:32:21 we got this information late from the state,

1:32:23 and so we wanted to provide families

1:32:25 with not losing all of their summer.

1:32:28 And so that is what led us to that July 22nd start date.

1:32:32 In honoring the community feedback

1:32:35 to align with already existing breaks,

1:32:38 that became a little different than if you revert back

1:32:40 to the last time Challenger 7 was year round,

1:32:43 because we now have like a week off at Thanksgiving.

1:32:46 So there are different breaks that BPS has now,

1:32:49 and so we try to align the breaks

1:32:52 so that they would back up in some cases.

1:32:54 So like the winter break, that’s the intersession.

1:32:57 You’ll see in the spring, you’ll find that it’s the week

1:33:00 that backs up to the spring break.

1:33:02 So they would just basically have an extended spring break.

1:33:08 When we look at this draft calendar,

1:33:10 something that is important to note is our before

1:33:14 and after care, they’re obviously district employees.

1:33:17 And so when that intersession falls during the winter break,

1:33:22 the district is closed.

1:33:23 And so we would not be honoring that commitment

1:33:27 during that intersession of running our childcare programs.

1:33:30 The same goes for during spring break,

1:33:33 our BAS programs do not run.

1:33:36 And so at this point, we could not commit

1:33:38 to both weeks of that intersession.

1:33:40 So we would run one week with before and after care.

1:33:43 So summer programming,

1:33:45 basically during that one week of intersession,

1:33:47 but the other week would be your traditional spring break.

1:33:52 Any questions on this tentative calendar?

1:33:55 - And just for clarifying purposes,

1:33:56 we’re not running before or after school care

1:33:58 during those times anyways for any of the other schools.

1:34:00 So this is something that’s different for Challenger

1:34:02 than it would be for our other elementary.

1:34:04 Just wanna clarify that.

1:34:11 - I can assume the answer here,

1:34:12 but I’m sure the public is curious too,

1:34:14 for the before and after care for those intersession breaks,

1:34:16 will there be a cost associated with that for families?

1:34:20 - There will, there will.

1:34:21 It will be very similar to,

1:34:23 we do run in certain sites during the summer,

1:34:26 the summer programming.

1:34:27 And so it would be a fee based program

1:34:31 that would match that rate that we pay now in June.

1:34:35 We run summer programs,

1:34:37 I think at five or six elementary programs.

1:34:40 And that is fee-based, so it would be fee-based.

1:34:43 What would not be fee-based would be our enrichment

1:34:46 or our academic support that we would run.

1:34:48 Now that would not necessarily be a full day.

1:34:51 That could be an eight to 12, students come,

1:34:55 we’re doing either enrichment or different things

1:34:58 that we would hire teachers

1:34:59 using that academic support funding.

1:35:02 - Correct, so if I could draw that a little further.

1:35:04 So during those intersession weeks,

1:35:07 we could offer an eight to 12 intersession enrichment period

1:35:12 or even longer depending on what funding

1:35:14 we want to direct towards it.

1:35:16 And that would be bust and that would be free and all that.

1:35:19 So if that was eight to 12 and you wanted to stay

1:35:22 for the full day, then you would only pay

1:35:23 for the before and after care costs after that,

1:35:26 that kind of thing.

1:35:27 So most of the models we looked at

1:35:30 that have a year round or modified calendar

1:35:34 offer some kind of instruction

1:35:35 during that intersession time that’s free.

1:35:38 It’s paid for with either supplemental instruction money

1:35:40 or summer school money and stuff like that.

1:35:42 So those three weeks on this calendar,

1:35:45 two weeks September, October and then one week in March,

1:35:48 there could be instruction provided for part of that day

1:35:54 and that would be free.

1:35:55 So that’s still part of the plan.

1:35:59 - So I have a question because I see the value in that.

1:36:03 I totally understand that.

1:36:05 But our students need breaks too, right?

1:36:08 And so really this is also because parents just aren’t

1:36:12 gonna be able to adapt to that schedule

1:36:13 of any child care for their students.

1:36:15 So my question is, it sounds like we were awarded whatever

1:36:19 from the state to do this.

1:36:21 Is that coming with money?

1:36:23 - That is not coming with money.

1:36:25 - Okay, because my follow up question would be then

1:36:29 for us to consider because this is a pilot program

1:36:32 that we are initiating and kind of pulling the bandaid off

1:36:35 last minute to some families to make this shift

1:36:37 that we should consider some kind of support

1:36:41 for those families for these intercessions,

1:36:44 at least for the pilot year.

1:36:45 That’s just my opinion.

1:36:46 I also think because even though there was

1:36:49 a significant response from families,

1:36:51 there was one third of those families in that survey

1:36:53 that are not okay with the schedule for us to consider

1:36:58 that that might keep them in that school

1:37:00 for this pilot year and you might win them over.

1:37:03 So if we can, I know we can’t talk about that today

1:37:05 obviously, but if that’s something we can just kind of

1:37:07 think about and possibly consider as a board

1:37:09 to make this as successful as possible for that community,

1:37:12 potentially saving staff members

1:37:14 from leaving that school too.

1:37:16 - It’s only one.

1:37:18 - It was only one, one that was not favorable.

1:37:19 - No, we’re gonna lose one staff member per grade

1:37:21 if all of these kids who said they don’t wanna come back.

1:37:23 - Well, here’s what I do have to offer

1:37:25 and it’s on a future slide is what we will be doing

1:37:28 is initially doing placement of the families

1:37:30 that are saying I’d like a traditional calendar.

1:37:32 Then we’re going to open up an application window

1:37:35 for families choice again.

1:37:37 ‘Cause what we have heard from the community

1:37:38 is they believe that there will be potentially

1:37:41 from some of those neighborhood schools in Port St. John

1:37:44 that they would want to apply in.

1:37:46 So we’ll do, we won’t know obviously if it’s 114 out,

1:37:51 114 in yet, but that is what we are planning for.

1:37:55 - And just for reference to when challenger seven

1:37:56 was year round school before, it was on a wait list.

1:37:58 It was that capacity always.

1:38:00 So I anticipate that that is a similar situation

1:38:02 that we will see with this one.

1:38:03 So just wanna put that out there.

1:38:04 - I understand that but what I’m uncomfortable

1:38:08 is the disruption of the school the way it is now

1:38:10 and the people it’s serving now

1:38:12 and the people who are serving that school now.

1:38:14 And so I’m just asking if we consider

1:38:17 possibly keeping it as stable as possible

1:38:20 and because it’s a pilot program

1:38:21 and because we’re the ones making this choice

1:38:23 to institute this to consider during this pilot year

1:38:25 to possibly support those families

1:38:27 or maybe a threshold of families that we can support

1:38:29 when it comes to that intercession.

1:38:31 So that way we’re not limiting people

1:38:32 to be able to access the year round school

1:38:35 if they wanna access it.

1:38:36 I just think it’s something for us to think about

1:38:38 is just put the numbers on the paper

1:38:40 and see what it looks like.

1:38:41 I just, I think we should consider it.

1:38:43 That’s all I’m asking.

1:38:44 - The only thing about that is,

1:38:45 I mean, I hear you saying, but it’s we’re,

1:38:48 all we’re really doing is shifting around the decks,

1:38:52 the chairs on the deck, right?

1:38:54 I’m not gonna say of the Titanic ‘cause it’s not sinking,

1:38:56 but we’re just shifting around the week.

1:38:58 So it’s still 180 days, we’re just putting them in.

1:39:00 So if, so if a family normally would have to pay

1:39:04 for childcare in the summer in June,

1:39:07 everybody’s still gonna have June off,

1:39:08 but in that part of July and August

1:39:11 where now they’d have school,

1:39:12 they’re gonna be paying, instead of paying for it then,

1:39:14 they’re gonna be paying for it in other places.

1:39:16 And our BAS is still the cheapest thing out there.

1:39:19 And it sounds like from what Dr. Rundell is saying,

1:39:21 if this, it’s, we keep saying free.

1:39:24 It’s free to them, not free to us.

1:39:26 And I wanna find out where we’re getting this money from

1:39:28 to pay for the intercession

1:39:29 ‘cause that’s one of the things

1:39:30 when I was doing my conversation

1:39:32 with people who were doing this,

1:39:33 they had the money to do it

1:39:34 when they first were doing the intercession.

1:39:36 It was to do all these programs and to provide busing.

1:39:38 I don’t know, that’s a maybe.

1:39:40 We can if we choose to, if we have the funding for it.

1:39:43 But for our families who want to take advantage

1:39:47 of the intercession, the enrichment, and the,

1:39:51 what’s the other word?

1:39:54 - Like remediation or– - Mediation, remediation.

1:39:57 Those things, that is no cost.

1:40:00 So they would only be paying for like a half day,

1:40:03 a three hour, whatever the rest of the day,

1:40:05 if they wanted to do a full day.

1:40:08 So I think we’re just kind of,

1:40:10 we’re just moving around for a family’s budget

1:40:12 or moving it from this part of the year

1:40:14 to this part of the year.

1:40:17 One of the reasons why this was able to be successful

1:40:20 in Charlotte and the schools where they’re doing it

1:40:21 is the whole entire community kind of came around

1:40:24 and they’re used to this, right?

1:40:25 So if our daycares,

1:40:27 I think this is in one of your presentation,

1:40:29 if the daycares in the area are also,

1:40:32 ‘cause some people, even then,

1:40:34 maybe BAS is not gonna work for them.

1:40:38 If they are on board enough to say hey,

1:40:41 this and the county programs and things like that,

1:40:44 to know far enough ahead of time to say hey,

1:40:46 this school’s gonna be doing this calendar,

1:40:48 you might want to staff in such a way

1:40:50 and do your program in such a way

1:40:52 that you’re prepared to take on extra kids

1:40:56 during these weeks.

1:40:58 So which I’m assuming they already do

1:41:00 like during spring break and things like that.

1:41:00 - And Ms. Maynor, the principal did reach out

1:41:03 to the daycare, so in the survey,

1:41:05 it asked the community which outside providers do you use,

1:41:09 and she has partnered with all of them,

1:41:11 and they have agreed to support this initiative too.

1:41:15 - I just, I hear what you’re saying, Ms. Campbell.

1:41:17 I just, just to be a devil’s advocate though

1:41:19 for a diverse community,

1:41:21 a lot of families, when the chunks of time off

1:41:25 is in one time, it’s a lot easier for them to coordinate.

1:41:28 They have grandparents come in,

1:41:29 or they send them to grandparents,

1:41:31 or one parent takes off vacation, the other one doesn’t.

1:41:34 And also thinking about our students with disabilities,

1:41:37 a lot of these facilities

1:41:38 aren’t going to take those students.

1:41:40 So it’s just something to think about,

1:41:42 even if there’s like a threshold

1:41:45 or a requirement or something,

1:41:46 just for us to even just consider,

1:41:47 I’m not saying it’s a definite,

1:41:49 I just think if we want this to be bought into

1:41:51 from the community that already is using this school,

1:41:53 I really think we should be supporting them

1:41:55 through this first transition year if we can.

1:41:59 - Ms. Jenkins, can you explain what that means

1:42:04 as far as a threshold, what you’re looking for?

1:42:06 Like what are you looking for?

1:42:08 - Honestly, I think that’s–

1:42:09 - Hang on, hang on, hang on, if I may finish,

1:42:12 if you can do that.

1:42:13 And then I didn’t understand the comment

1:42:14 of they may not be able to be picked up in another place

1:42:18 for their disabilities.

1:42:20 If you could explain that, thank you.

1:42:21 - Many after school and daycares

1:42:24 are not going to take students

1:42:25 with moderate to significant disabilities.

1:42:28 They’re just not going to.

1:42:29 If they have any kind of behaviors,

1:42:31 they’re just not going to, they don’t have to.

1:42:33 It’s just a reality for many of our family students

1:42:35 who have even just ADHD.

1:42:37 If their child is running around the room

1:42:40 and knocking over furniture,

1:42:41 daycare doesn’t want to deal with that

1:42:44 and they kick that child out of that daycare.

1:42:45 It happens all the time.

1:42:47 And so this puts a lot of stress on families

1:42:49 that we may not think about.

1:42:52 But if they’re in the schools, it’s just different.

1:42:54 It’s just those students are just treated differently

1:42:58 and we’re willing to work with them

1:43:01 and teach them and guide them.

1:43:03 And so it’s just something to think about.

1:43:04 In terms of thresholds, really what I just mean is,

1:43:06 honestly, that’s for staff to think about

1:43:09 because I don’t know what the cost would even be associated

1:43:11 with something like this.

1:43:13 I don’t know the legality of what saying

1:43:16 what kind of criteria that family would have to meet

1:43:19 could be legal even.

1:43:21 But I’m just throwing it out there.

1:43:22 Just if we can support this community transitioning

1:43:25 this quickly into something very different,

1:43:28 again, I think it would be best for the students

1:43:29 who are already going there that want to stay there

1:43:31 and the only thing stopping them is that schedule,

1:43:34 let us consider a way to possibly support them

1:43:36 for the first year, that’s all.

1:43:37 - I just didn’t, it’s kind of a wormhole to go down,

1:43:39 you know what I mean?

1:43:40 Without the guidance, that was all.

1:43:41 I was just trying to have you define it a little bit more.

1:43:43 And I will say, being a student, a former kid

1:43:47 that was borderline ADHD, I think this is gonna be

1:43:52 incredible because I think what you’re gonna see

1:43:54 is rather than kids and issues and problems,

1:43:56 I think what you do is when they mentioned in there

1:43:59 about the transitional weeks, about how you have

1:44:02 community support and partners inside the community

1:44:05 coming in to do it, I think it’s gonna be

1:44:06 one of those stars.

1:44:07 I’m really looking forward to seeing this happen.

1:44:09 I think you do have a validity there, Ms. Jenkins,

1:44:13 as far as trying to help some of those families,

1:44:16 but I just didn’t know what your definition was

1:44:17 and I was trying to help you refine it

1:44:19 before we sent staff out on a wormhole,

1:44:22 but I guess they can do that.

1:44:24 That’s it, thank you.

1:44:25 - All right.

1:44:27 All right, we have a couple more slides, I think.

1:44:30 - So these are just some of the questions you’ll see here

1:44:33 that came up at the community meeting

1:44:35 and also through our email contact

1:44:37 that we’re working to address.

1:44:40 We’ve been, we were very transparent in the parent meeting

1:44:43 that this is pending board approval.

1:44:45 Like, that we can’t say that this isn’t for sure yet,

1:44:48 that we just are collecting information

1:44:50 and as we have information, we are pushing it out

1:44:52 through the principal as things come.

1:44:54 But we were able to answer a lot of these,

1:44:57 both with pushing out the tentative map,

1:44:59 as well as hosting the parent meeting

1:45:01 and communications that Ms. Maynard

1:45:03 has pushed out to her staff.

1:45:06 Things that we kind of already addressed,

1:45:08 the placement of students opting out,

1:45:10 and then the potential impact on staffing allocations.

1:45:14 If we believe that we’ll have a balance

1:45:17 of incoming students, so,

1:45:19 but we do know that we would work with HR

1:45:21 if in fact more students go out than come in,

1:45:25 that we would be shifting allocations.

1:45:27 But we do have the capacity

1:45:29 at both of the other elementary schools in the area.

1:45:32 So this would not be looking at bringing in

1:45:35 learning cottages or any type of portables.

1:45:37 And then transportation possibilities.

1:45:40 We, in talking with the parents,

1:45:43 talked about if you do opt out,

1:45:45 transporting you to one of those two neighboring schools.

1:45:49 We did have some parents mention,

1:45:50 well, I work in Merritt Island,

1:45:52 I’d want to be placed at a school in Merritt Island.

1:45:55 We didn’t really speak to transportation outside

1:45:58 of just that Fort St. John community,

1:46:01 just because for our other students

1:46:02 that apply to alternate settings,

1:46:04 we’re not providing that for them.

1:46:06 And then just extending choice options

1:46:09 for incoming students.

1:46:10 And that would be through an application process

1:46:12 that we would open.

1:46:16 - How far off are we?

1:46:17 Because we don’t open the elementary ELO window

1:46:22 until April, May?

1:46:24 - Correct.

1:46:25 - I mean, it’s already towards the end of the year anyway.

1:46:26 - Yes, when I talk to Dr. Mayer,

1:46:29 depending on next steps from the board,

1:46:32 we may be able to have that an incoming option

1:46:37 with our normal elementary and just putting that on there.

1:46:40 What we did want to honor for the families

1:46:42 that are asking to go to a traditional calendar,

1:46:45 that they wouldn’t go through the application,

1:46:46 we’re gonna have a different pathway for them

1:46:49 because they won’t be selected or not.

1:46:52 We will be placing them in a site.

1:46:54 - Right, so they get first priority.

1:46:56 - Yes. - Right.

1:46:58 - What is the timeline for this to be concrete

1:47:02 and set in stone, those calendar?

1:47:06 - We would need to be set in stone.

1:47:08 Right now, this is like revision number 50.

1:47:13 With all the different feedback.

1:47:14 So this calendar right now would be the calendar

1:47:16 that we would be submitting to the board for next steps.

1:47:20 If you were to vote to move forward with this,

1:47:23 we are working behind the scenes

1:47:25 so that we’re just waiting on next steps from the board.

1:47:29 - Basically, what we would look for

1:47:31 is some kind of consensus today.

1:47:33 Stop what you’re doing, don’t do it, or move forward.

1:47:37 If it’s move forward, then we’re gonna bring the calendar

1:47:40 back for approval at a board meeting.

1:47:42 And then any other policy changes, or not policy changes,

1:47:45 but any other things that we have to do

1:47:47 to accommodate all of these needs

1:47:49 would come back for board approval.

1:47:51 - So I’m asking just specifically for, I mean,

1:47:55 the families that have to deal

1:47:56 with custodial agreements and arrangements.

1:47:58 I mean, we had a disaster the year

1:48:00 we randomly took off Thanksgiving break,

1:48:02 and that was a legal disaster for many families.

1:48:04 So just if we can make that as clear as possible for families

1:48:09 as soon as possible, that is my recommendation.

1:48:15 - Okay, I’m gonna chime in on this one

1:48:16 just because this has obviously been something

1:48:18 I’ve been very vocal about being passionate

1:48:20 about wanting for all of our schools.

1:48:22 And the funny thing is as this calendar has come out

1:48:24 and become public, I’ve heard from several people

1:48:26 that are like, “Why can’t we have this at our school?”

1:48:28 And I’m like, “Well, maybe one day.”

1:48:30 But just to kind of put it in perspective,

1:48:33 when we had the teacher meeting,

1:48:35 this doesn’t happen like this very often,

1:48:36 but we got a round of applause at the end of it.

1:48:38 They were excited, so I was like, “Okay, staff is on board.

1:48:40 “They love it.”

1:48:41 And we got a round of applause from a lot of the family

1:48:44 when we were having the conversation with them.

1:48:46 This community is, they have used,

1:48:49 it’s actually, this calendar’s a little more,

1:48:52 I wanna get to a place where we’re not quite as long

1:48:54 as we are even on this calendar for summer,

1:48:55 ‘cause right now I think our summer’s looking like it’s,

1:48:57 what, six weeks, and I know we’re kind of easing into it.

1:49:00 This feels a little bit like an ease into.

1:49:02 But this schedule, I believe the community

1:49:06 is going to love it.

1:49:07 I believe we’re gonna have a wait list at Challenger Seven.

1:49:09 I believe that this will be something that’s so successful

1:49:13 that I hope other schools in our district

1:49:15 look at going to this model.

1:49:17 And I think you’re gonna see a lot of teachers

1:49:18 that are very attracted to this schedule

1:49:20 and the breaks that are there.

1:49:21 As a family, I mean, think about it,

1:49:23 you can go on vacation in September and October

1:49:26 versus having to wait ‘til Thanksgiving or Christmas

1:49:29 or the summer, which are the most expensive times

1:49:31 to vacation.

1:49:32 And then, again, the childcare expense,

1:49:35 thank you, Ms. Jenkins, it’s very thoughtful

1:49:36 for you to think about the families

1:49:37 that are maybe not in favor of this

1:49:40 and how can we help them.

1:49:42 I appreciate that perspective.

1:49:44 But I do also have to echo a little bit

1:49:46 of what Ms. Campbell said on we’re just shifting it around.

1:49:48 It’s the same amount of time off.

1:49:50 It is just shifted around.

1:49:52 And I think overall this calendar

1:49:55 is going to be so successful, like I said,

1:49:57 that I believe we’ll see other schools

1:49:58 that will want to jumpsuit with us as well.

1:50:00 So obviously, my recommendation is move forward, let’s go.

1:50:06 But we need more consensus on that.

1:50:08 So I will be quiet and let the rest of you speak

1:50:10 and chime in on this.

1:50:12 - I’m excited, let’s go.

1:50:14 (laughs)

1:50:17 - So I’m glad to hear about the community, staff, parents.

1:50:22 And I think I had a conversation with Dr. Rendell.

1:50:25 He said that the survey was done before you guys came in

1:50:27 and did the presentation, kind of answered

1:50:29 some of those questions.

1:50:30 So if you did the survey today,

1:50:31 it might be a little more different.

1:50:32 You estimate it might be more positive

1:50:34 ‘cause people are like, oh, okay, oh, that.

1:50:36 And it sounds like before with the choice again

1:50:40 from the community that that would take care of.

1:50:43 ‘Cause I’d hate for these 94% of staff

1:50:45 who want it to happen and then like 13% of them

1:50:48 have to go somewhere else.

1:50:54 Here are some of the questions that I think about

1:50:58 and we can’t get them all answered today.

1:51:00 But we have the potential,

1:51:02 any year round school that’s gonna be

1:51:04 one of our traditional public schools,

1:51:06 we have families that move in even for our regular schools

1:51:10 after Labor Day, especially if they’re coming

1:51:12 from up north, right?

1:51:14 In a situation like that where a family comes in August 12th

1:51:18 ‘cause they moved in, they weren’t paying attention,

1:51:20 whatever, they come in to enroll

1:51:22 or they’re moving up from the north and they come in.

1:51:24 Then in this case, here’s the downside.

1:51:27 One of the downsides is that we’re already three weeks

1:51:31 into the school year at the first day of school.

1:51:33 If they come in after Labor Day,

1:51:35 we’re like six weeks into the school year.

1:51:37 So they’ve missed most of the first quarter.

1:51:40 What do we do with those kids?

1:51:43 I mean, I guess we could say,

1:51:44 hey, this is your zone school.

1:51:45 We’re on a year round format.

1:51:47 Yeah, you just missed the first six weeks of kindergarten.

1:51:49 But you could go to this school over here.

1:51:53 Are we gonna leave that open for families who,

1:51:56 because I don’t know how transient

1:51:58 the Port St. John community is

1:52:01 compared to some of our other communities.

1:52:02 And is this Title I school?

1:52:05 - It’s one of those, it’s on and off.

1:52:06 - On and off, okay. - I lost it this last year.

1:52:08 - So that’s, I think we need to be prepared to address that

1:52:12 so that just as if we’re saying we’re going to give

1:52:16 the families that are zoned for Challenger 7

1:52:18 kind of a outside of the regular ELO opportunity,

1:52:22 I think that needs to be ongoing

1:52:24 so that any new enrolling family can come in,

1:52:27 depending on what it is in the year.

1:52:28 Because if we’re after that fall break,

1:52:31 then we’re kind of caught up, right?

1:52:34 But especially in that first quarter,

1:52:35 if they’re already three weeks behind

1:52:37 or potentially six weeks behind or whatever,

1:52:39 it’s really gonna be impactful for families that move in.

1:52:42 So I would suggest that we would have an ongoing ability,

1:52:45 and we kind of already do with the state law

1:52:47 where you can go to whatever school.

1:52:48 But I think from the moment they enroll,

1:52:49 we need to give them their options and say,

1:52:51 just so you know, this is the way it is.

1:52:53 But you can, if you’re willing to get your own kid there,

1:52:56 here’s a school a couple miles down the road,

1:52:58 a mile and a half down that way, whatever.

1:52:59 Here’s your other options

1:53:00 if you want the traditional calendar.

1:53:01 We need to leave that to them upon enrollment

1:53:04 for people who are moving into the area.

1:53:08 ‘Cause I would sure hate for a kid

1:53:09 to miss six weeks of a grade.

1:53:11 And then these intercession times,

1:53:13 you know, I have concerns about,

1:53:15 and these are concerns that can’t be overcome,

1:53:17 but I have concerns about funding

1:53:20 because it’s not an always every year Title I school.

1:53:25 We’re talking about pouring extra funds

1:53:27 into a school so that we can run this calendar,

1:53:32 which are funds that will have to come,

1:53:34 be diverted away from other programming,

1:53:37 or, you know, unless there’s grants

1:53:38 that we can get for specific for things.

1:53:40 So we’re talking about putting funding into a program

1:53:44 just so we can run this program

1:53:45 in the way that the families want it to be.

1:53:48 And I don’t want to not do for certain kids,

1:53:51 but if we’re doing for them,

1:53:53 there’s some things we’re not able to do

1:53:54 if I’m making, I feel like I’m being not clear about that.

1:53:57 But, so I, that’s the downside, another downside for me.

1:54:02 - Can I just ask you to elaborate

1:54:03 on what you mean for the funding?

1:54:04 ‘Cause it’s the same amount of calendar days.

1:54:06 It’s the same amount of–

1:54:06 - But intercession’s not.

1:54:08 - Well, and that would–

1:54:09 - One of the things that we talked to the principal about

1:54:12 as an idea, you know, as we’re exploring this,

1:54:15 is our schools, all of our schools receive an allocation

1:54:19 for academic support.

1:54:20 And a lot of them run before school,

1:54:21 after school programming.

1:54:24 And we have all different levels of success with that,

1:54:26 just due to teachers being tired, students being tired,

1:54:30 looking at diverting that funding

1:54:32 to support the intercession.

1:54:35 So it’s still using the funding as allowed,

1:54:38 but instead of doing after school programs,

1:54:40 running, using that funding to pay the teachers

1:54:44 that would work the intercession.

1:54:45 And so– - So it’s enough to cover–

1:54:47 - It would not be, it’s just kind of a little

1:54:49 out of the box movement of funds.

1:54:51 So to do away with the after school program,

1:54:54 that’s remediation or enrichment,

1:54:56 reallocating that to the intercession dates.

1:54:59 - We have that funding outside of ESSER?

1:55:01 - Yes, while we had ESSER, schools actually got double.

1:55:06 So they will go back to 50% of what they’ve had

1:55:09 for two years, but they’ve always had that allocation.

1:55:11 - Okay, yeah, ‘cause that was my concern,

1:55:14 ‘cause I was talking about funding.

1:55:16 We have to pay the teachers to do it.

1:55:17 And we, transportation, we’ll have to find funding,

1:55:20 ‘cause I’m assuming that funding doesn’t cover,

1:55:22 necessarily, things like transportation.

1:55:23 We’ll have to figure out how we’re gonna pay for that.

1:55:26 So is this, I don’t know if this is also

1:55:29 a predominantly walking, maybe it’s not that much,

1:55:31 because if they only have one bus–

1:55:32 - It’s not, so that’s what they do.

1:55:34 They only have one bus that buses in,

1:55:36 whereas the other elementary schools,

1:55:37 I think one of ‘em has nine.

1:55:39 They’re significantly higher.

1:55:40 Challenger only has one bus that comes in.

1:55:42 So it should be doable.

1:55:45 - Okay, and I know food and nutrition services

1:55:46 always, as a way to find it out

1:55:48 with their summer feeding program.

1:55:51 They have creative ways of dealing with the feeding kids.

1:55:56 Yeah, and then the other input I would have is,

1:55:59 how are we, if we have, let’s say only half of our teachers

1:56:03 agree to do intersessions, we have limited spaces,

1:56:06 how are we gonna prioritize who gets to come?

1:56:10 Obviously, BAS can ramp up as much as they can

1:56:13 for their side of it, but I think if we can prioritize,

1:56:18 for example, staff students who are going to be working,

1:56:22 prioritize low-performing students.

1:56:26 There needs to be a way, not just a first-come, first-serve.

1:56:29 There needs to be a priority on the students who,

1:56:32 like the people who are working there,

1:56:33 obviously need a place for their kids to come,

1:56:35 but we need to prioritize those BAS spots

1:56:38 and the enrichment remediation spots

1:56:42 for the students who most need it.

1:56:46 - And I think that’ll be something that when,

1:56:48 if we move in this direction,

1:56:49 that we’ll work closely with the school

1:56:51 on identifying those families

1:56:53 that would have traditionally been invited

1:56:55 to academic support or enrichment before,

1:56:58 and working with those families,

1:56:59 are they planning to come so that,

1:57:01 I don’t wanna say like a reservation system,

1:57:02 but truly a planning so that we can staff it appropriately

1:57:05 within the dollars that we have.

1:57:06 - Right. - Which is really

1:57:07 no different than childcare would be anyways,

1:57:09 the same kind of idea where you have to make sure.

1:57:12 Okay, sorry, go ahead.

1:57:12 - Sure. - You look like

1:57:13 you’ve broken down a few things.

1:57:14 - Sure, he’s been anxiously ready to hit this button.

1:57:18 - As former teacher, great schedule.

1:57:20 I really like this.

1:57:21 I think this is almost a modified, modified schedule,

1:57:25 ‘cause it’s not quite a year round

1:57:27 because they’re that large. - Right.

1:57:28 - So you may be asked to keep it this way,

1:57:30 but it is nice.

1:57:33 And it isn’t just set up that maybe we could take

1:57:37 more different time of the year vacations,

1:57:40 which does lead to different experiences for children,

1:57:43 and I understand that.

1:57:44 But it’s in hopes that we increase student achievement.

1:57:47 And at those times in between that we could provide

1:57:50 some services and everybody’s a little bit better

1:57:53 after that little break there.

1:57:55 So if it takes a little bit of extra funding

1:57:58 or creative financing to help student achievement,

1:58:03 I’m all for that.

1:58:04 But I really think, I say it’s not my area,

1:58:07 you know those people a little bit better than I do,

1:58:08 but I can see a waiting list as well at other schools.

1:58:12 I really, I had hoped we would do something like this,

1:58:17 you know, during the campaign we talked about

1:58:19 turning education on its ear.

1:58:21 This is part of it is, you know,

1:58:22 let’s look at our schedule, let’s look at our calendar.

1:58:25 So I’m excited so you know where I’m headed.

1:58:27 So we’re good. - Is that a yes move forward

1:58:29 and do good work or what? - Absolutely, let’s get it go.

1:58:32 - Okay, all right.

1:58:35 Is there any other additional questions

1:58:36 or do you feel like you have clarity on–

1:58:39 - We do. - On direction?

1:58:42 All right, hearing none, does any other board member

1:58:44 have anything further to discuss today?

1:58:49 Hearing none, this meeting is adjourned.

1:58:51 (gavel bangs)

1:58:53 Thank you guys.

1:58:57 (upbeat music)

1:59:42 (silence)