Updates on the Fight for Quality Public Education in Brevard County, FL
0:00 [BLANK_AUDIO]
13:52 [MUSIC]
14:20 » Good morning, the January 6th, 2026 work session is now in
14:24 order.
14:25 Roll call, please, Paul.
14:27 » Mr. Season?
14:28 » Here. » Ms. Wright?
14:29 » Here. » Mr. Trent?
14:30 » Here. » Mr. Thomas?
14:31 » Here. » Ms. Campbell?
14:32 » Here.
14:33 » I wanted to take an opportunity to thank the city of Cape
14:36 Canaveral.
14:37 You guys, through our articulation agreements and everything
14:40 else,
14:41 made the request to have this meeting.
14:43 We appreciate any of our municipal partners to come forward with
14:46 any issues
14:47 that you guys may have.
14:49 We look forward to having this great conversation.
14:52 And I wanted to give you, Mr. Morrison, the floor, where you can
14:56 do a roll call
14:56 and everything else.
14:57 [BLANK_AUDIO]
15:13 » Thank you, Chairman Susan, and the entire school board, and
15:16 Dr.
15:16 Rendell, and the administration.
15:17 We appreciate your time.
15:18 This time, we’ll ask our city clerk to please call the roll.
15:21 » Mayor pro tem, Kate Jackson?
15:24 » Here.
15:25 » Councilmember Andrea King?
15:27 » Here.
15:28 » Mayor Wes Morrison?
15:30 » Here.
15:31 » Councilmember Tom Sharieck?
15:34 » Here.
15:35 » And Councilmember Don West?
15:37 » Here.
15:38 » Thank you.
15:39 Will you all please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance?
15:42 [BLANK_AUDIO]
16:03 » The topic on today’s agenda is a discussion with the city of
16:06 Cape Canaveral
16:06 regarding the Cape View Elementary School.
16:08 Before we begin the discussion, I’d like to give Superintendent
16:11 Mark Rendell
16:12 to share a presentation regarding the possible consolidation of
16:15 Cape View
16:15 Elementary School and Roosevelt Elementary School.
16:18 Dr. Rendell.
16:19 » Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair.
16:20 So what I’d like to do is share a presentation that we actually
16:23 delivered
16:24 to the parents at both Cape View and Roosevelt Elementary School.
16:27 I believe we have sent this information to your staff several
16:31 weeks ago.
16:32 We also sent you a bunch of other information.
16:34 But since you didn’t see the presentation delivered,
16:38 and since we have members of the public and the media here,
16:41 we thought we’d deliver that presentation.
16:43 That could generate questions or comments afterwards as well.
16:46 So the PowerPoint presentation, we’ll just go through that.
16:50 The first thing we want to make sure everybody understands is
16:53 that
16:54 the reason we’re here today is the result of a comprehensive
16:57 study.
16:58 The board engaged with a company called WXY almost two years ago
17:03 to look at all of our buildings.
17:05 The utilization rate, the age of our buildings, the condition of
17:08 our buildings,
17:09 basically how we’re using our facilities.
17:12 Now, we are a publicly funded group, so we need to make sure
17:16 that we’re wise
17:17 purveyors of the taxpayers’ money.
17:20 So this was a comprehensive top-to-bottom look at all 86 of our
17:25 schools
17:26 and our other facilities, looking again at utilization, age of
17:29 the building,
17:30 how much it costs to maintain the building, and that kind of
17:32 thing.
17:33 So there’s a timeline there. This began in 2024.
17:37 WXY, the company, presented information to the board December 10th
17:41 of 2024.
17:43 So over a year ago was the first presentation.
17:46 The board gave some feedback on things they wanted to know more
17:49 about.
17:50 So a more detailed presentation was given to the board on April
17:52 8th of 2025.
17:54 And then from that, the board directed the staff to start
17:57 looking at some of the proposals or situations.
17:59 And one of those was a possible consolidation of KPU and
18:02 Roosevelt.
18:04 So we began looking at that in the summer, you know, May of 2025.
18:07 Again, community engagement in October of 2025, which involves
18:11 these meetings with the parents.
18:13 So some results that we wanted to share with you of that
18:17 comprehensive study that are really, really pertinent.
18:19 So Brevard Public Schools has the lowest utilization rate among
18:24 our peer districts.
18:26 So basically we’re using our facilities at a 69% utilization
18:31 rate.
18:32 So that’s like if a school is designed for 1,000 students and we
18:37 only have 690 students there, 69% utilization rate.
18:42 And compared to our peers who have between 73 and 82%
18:46 utilization rate.
18:48 And then even with schools that have a below 60% utilization
18:52 rate,
18:53 we had a 25% versus 5 to 19%.
18:57 So in other words, 1 in 4 of our school buildings were under 60%
19:01 utilization rate.
19:03 So, you know, that’s not to capacity. It’s not near capacity.
19:08 It’s probably not a good return on the taxpayer investment.
19:15 So capital expenditures per student is almost twice as costly
19:19 for schools with utilization rate under 60% when compared with
19:23 schools with utilization rate of over 80%.
19:25 So, you know, basically we’re running a school for 1,000
19:29 students with only 600 students.
19:33 That’s not very efficient.
19:36 So consolidation was the recommended approach by WXY for schools
19:41 with low utilization, low capture rate and relatively poor
19:45 condition.
19:47 So these two schools were two of the ones that WXY identified, KPU
19:51 and Roosevelt.
19:53 Both are significantly under enrolled.
19:56 We’ll look at some other charts to show you that.
19:58 KPU right now, 47% capacity utilization. So we’re using less
20:02 than half of the building’s capacity.
20:06 Roosevelt, 46% capacity utilization. So, again, less than half
20:10 of the capacity’s utilization possibilities.
20:14 So we’re operating these schools at under 50% enrollment, under
20:17 50% utilization.
20:19 KPU and Roosevelt are located very close to each other, seven
20:22 miles apart.
20:24 KPU had been identified as needing some significant facility
20:27 upgrades.
20:28 So WXY presented consulting KPU Elementary and Roosevelt as an
20:32 option to the board.
20:34 So the board said to staff, you know, let’s go check that out,
20:37 let’s see what that looks like.
20:40 So we want to make sure everybody understands how schools and
20:42 school districts are funded.
20:44 We’re funded per student, per student enrolled in our district
20:47 and then we divvy that up amongst the schools.
20:50 So under enrolled schools actually cost more to operate than the
20:54 funding they earn.
20:56 So especially when you’re under 60% utilization rate, in both
20:59 these schools it’s under 50% utilization rate.
21:02 So in rough math, it costs about $5 million annually to operate
21:06 Roosevelt.
21:07 It costs about $5 million annually to operate KPU.
21:10 They generate about $2.5 million in funding because, again, they’re
21:16 at under 50% utilization.
21:19 So the simple math there is each of those are earning about $2.5
21:22 million in funding,
21:24 but we’re spending $5 million in funding on both of those
21:27 schools each year just to operate the schools.
21:30 So combined it’s a $5 million deficit annually. So that’s the
21:35 math.
21:37 One of the reasons that they’re both under enrolled is the
21:40 enrollment trends over on the beach side.
21:44 You guys are a beach side community. You’re aware of the changes
21:47 over on most of the coastal communities in Florida.
21:51 A lot of the communities are not becoming family communities.
21:56 They’re becoming more short-term rentals, more Airbnbs.
21:59 Cape Canaveral is facing that same situation as is the city of
22:02 Cocoa Beach and many other coastal communities in Florida.
22:06 So as you can see, 10 years ago, KPU had an enrollment of 426
22:10 students, Roosevelt had an enrollment of 375.
22:15 Both fairly stable for another year and then the drop starts.
22:19 And as you can see in the last four to five years, it’s been
22:22 under 300 all of the years but one.
22:26 So this is a sustained loss of enrollment at both of these
22:30 schools.
22:32 So this is not a one-off trend, not a one-year trend, this is a
22:36 several years trend.
22:38 So we have these two schools that are both built for 500 to 600,
22:42 both of them operating with an enrollment of only 260 to 275
22:47 students.
22:48 So this is not a sustainable model. We can’t keep operating
22:52 these schools with this low enrollment.
22:55 A couple maps to share with you and we do this every year. We
22:59 annually check and look at where the students are coming and
23:03 where they’re going.
23:04 So this map shows the enrollment area, the attendance boundary
23:08 for KPU Elementary School.
23:10 You can see the city of KPU is noted with the red border there.
23:15 So there’s a little bit of area unincorporated above, you know,
23:18 north of KPU and then south of KPU.
23:20 And there’s even some of the neighborhoods at the bottom of the
23:23 map are actually in the city of Cocoa Beach.
23:27 So this is KPU’s attendance boundary and it’s a study, a
23:31 comparison for the last five years.
23:35 And the red areas indicate areas that have lost student
23:38 enrollment or enrollment has declined.
23:41 And the green areas are neighborhoods where the enrollment has
23:44 increased in the last five years.
23:47 But the box in the upper right hand corner of the chart shows a
23:50 negative loss of 104 students in this area over the last five
23:55 years.
23:56 It is borne out in the chart on the previous slide.
24:01 So just even a visual representation looking at red versus green
24:05 in this area, in KPU’s attendance boundary,
24:09 we have had a reduction in enrollment more so than an increase
24:12 in enrollment.
24:14 And it’s over the last five years, so a reduction of 104
24:17 students.
24:18 And in a school that’s that small, that’s a significant
24:21 reduction.
24:22 The next map, the next slide is the same visual representation,
24:26 the same map for Roosevelt Elementary School.
24:29 Again, you can see a lot of red and not as much green.
24:34 If you look at the box in the upper left hand corner, an
24:37 increase of 32 students over that five year period,
24:40 but a decrease of 100 students in those other neighborhoods.
24:43 So a net loss of 68 students or a net loss of 68 enrollment.
24:48 So both of these maps kind of show what the chart showed.
24:53 A decrease in enrollment the last 10 years and a steady decrease
24:57 in enrollment the last five years.
25:00 So you can see more areas are decreasing in enrollment than
25:04 increasing in enrollment.
25:07 So WXY recommended that we look at consolidating KPU and
25:11 Roosevelt.
25:13 So what does that mean? What does consolidation mean?
25:16 It means one of the schools would close and in this case KPU
25:18 Elementary would close.
25:20 Those students would be rezoned to Roosevelt Elementary School
25:24 and they would be bussed because they’re all far enough away
25:27 that they would be bussed.
25:28 School operations would be combined to one location and
25:31 transportation, as I said, would be provided to the students in
25:34 the KPU zone.
25:36 What’s interesting if you look at this map, well actually this
25:43 map,
25:44 many of the neighborhoods at the bottom part of the map, so they’re
25:48 in KPU’s attendance boundary,
25:51 are actually in the city of Cocoa Beach and in some of these
25:54 cases Roosevelt Elementary is actually closer than KPU.
25:59 They’re already being bussed to KPU so they’ll be bussed to
26:04 Roosevelt.
26:06 So the impact, the average student enrollment at all of our
26:11 elementary schools, the average is 544 students.
26:15 If we were to combine Roosevelt and KPU it’s 542 students.
26:20 So it fits right in with the average of our elementary school
26:23 enrollments.
26:24 We have 56 elementary schools that would fit right at 24th so
26:28 right in the middle.
26:30 So it’s not going to create a mega school.
26:33 We have many elementary schools that are much larger.
26:36 This is kind of the sweet spot for an elementary school is about
26:38 500 to 600 students.
26:40 So we put it right in the sweet spot so to speak.
26:43 There’s questions about what happens to the teachers that are at
26:46 KPU.
26:47 Theoretically the teacher units follow the students.
26:52 So the teachers at KPU would have the right to apply for the
26:56 jobs that are being transferred,
26:58 the units that are being transferred to Roosevelt before any
27:00 other teachers.
27:01 So theoretically the teachers could follow the students.
27:04 There’s actually a whole process in our contract about how
27:09 teachers who are displaced due to low enrollment or closure of a
27:11 school,
27:12 how they have right of first refusal over any jobs that are open
27:14 in the district.
27:16 So theoretically if a teacher that is teaching at KPU right now
27:20 lives on Merritt Island, North Merritt Island,
27:22 and they would rather teach at a school on North Merritt Island
27:25 or in Merritt Island,
27:25 they would have first right of any open position that was there,
27:28 not just the opportunity to go to Roosevelt.
27:31 So we have contract language to follow to make sure we take care
27:34 of our employees.
27:36 So that’s really not a big concern.
27:40 Now this slide talks about process and timeline.
27:43 This slide was sharing the process and timeline when we met with
27:46 the parents at the two schools.
27:49 As you saw in an earlier slide, this has been a study and a
27:54 process the board has undertaken for over a year, almost two
27:57 years.
27:58 But this was the process outlined with the parents when we met
28:02 with them back in September and October.
28:05 So you’re aware of these dates.
28:07 We had a work session on November 18th, a board meeting on
28:09 November 18th.
28:11 We had a school board meeting on December 9th.
28:14 And the January late January date TBD is January 20th, is at our
28:18 business meeting on January 20th,
28:20 is when we’ll have a public hearing and take action on the
28:23 proposal.
28:24 The reason the date was TBD was when we shared this presentation
28:27 with the parents and everything,
28:29 we hadn’t set our calendar for the coming year until we couldn’t
28:32 put a date on there.
28:34 And we’re using the same slides that we used then, so just
28:37 making sure that that’s the same information we presented then.
28:42 If approved on January 20th, if we move forward with
28:45 consolidation, this would take effect for the coming school year,
28:49 26-27.
28:51 So we had put out a link to the parents at both schools to
28:55 provide input, questions, and things like that.
29:00 So the next few slides are questions that they generated and
29:02 some answers that we have for those questions.
29:05 So we want to share some of those.
29:07 The first one is, “If students had an ELO to Cape View, will
29:10 that be honored at Roosevelt?”
29:12 So what’s an ELO? I’m sure that’s the first question.
29:15 So Florida is a choice state, Brevard is a choice district.
29:19 If you live in one school’s attendance zone but you would like
29:22 to go to a different school,
29:24 if you’d like to attend a different school, if there is room at
29:27 that school
29:28 and you’re willing to provide transportation, you can attend
29:30 that school.
29:32 We call that an education location option.
29:35 That’s the term ELO. We use acronyms like the military.
29:38 So if a family was choosing to go to Cape View even though they
29:43 didn’t live in Cape View’s zone,
29:46 then they have an ELO to Cape View.
29:49 We would honor that ELO to Roosevelt if they so chose to go to
29:52 Roosevelt.
29:53 So it could be a family on North Merritt Island, maybe the mom
29:56 or dad works over at the Cape or works in the port,
29:59 and so they have chosen Cape View.
30:01 They could then choose Roosevelt, we would honor that ELO.
30:04 They may not choose Roosevelt if they live somewhere other than
30:07 the beach side.
30:09 But that was the first question from a parent, “Will my ELO be
30:12 honored at Roosevelt?”
30:14 Yes, it would be.
30:17 This is a question that often comes up and there’s some misperceptions
30:20 about this.
30:21 “How will consolidation affect class sizes and teacher-student
30:26 ratios?”
30:27 The teaching units travel with the kids.
30:29 It’s not like we would send all the kids from Cape View to
30:31 Roosevelt and not hire any more teachers or not add more
30:34 teachers.
30:35 The teacher units go with the kids.
30:37 We’re in Florida and we’re very fortunate to have a class size
30:40 amendment.
30:42 Twenty plus years ago, I think it was, the voters approved an
30:45 amendment that our classes can’t exceed certain numbers.
30:49 So for primary grades, K through three, that number is typically
30:54 we target 18, but it can’t be any more than 21 students.
30:58 And then in intermediate grades, fourth grade, it’s 22 and we
31:02 can’t exceed 27.
31:04 So we already have a class size cap in place at all of our
31:07 schools, so that would be in place at Roosevelt.
31:11 If we consolidate Cape View and Roosevelt, we would still meet
31:13 those same targets.
31:14 So whatever number of kids we have, we would have that same
31:17 number of teachers.
31:19 In fact, in some cases when you combine the two schools, you
31:23 might earn another teacher at that grade level.
31:27 For example, if you had a first grade that had 200 students in
31:32 it, that earns, I did some math, that earns 3.33 teachers.
31:37 So that’s three and a third teacher. We wouldn’t hire a one-third
31:41 teacher, we would only have three.
31:44 So the classes would be a little over 18, it would be 20 per
31:48 class.
31:49 If that was combined with another first grade cohort of 200, now
31:53 you have 60 students.
31:59 You have 120, now you would actually earn seven teachers.
32:02 So sometimes when you combine schools, you actually earn more
32:05 teachers.
32:06 But the question, the concern was, would it increase class sizes?
32:11 No, it wouldn’t increase class sizes because we have this
32:13 amendment, this cap.
32:14 In fact, in some cases you might actually earn another teacher
32:16 or two per grade level.
32:18 So I’ll try to do the math better if there’s questions about
32:21 that.
32:22 All right, one of the other questions was, would students have
32:24 access to the same programs and extracurricular activities and
32:27 opportunities?
32:28 They actually have access to more.
32:31 When you have a very small school, sometimes you don’t have
32:33 enough students interested in a certain club or activity to run
32:36 a club or activity.
32:38 When you have an elementary school of 500 to 600 students, you
32:41 can offer just about any club or activity that you can think of.
32:45 So they’re not going to see any diminished or lesser
32:47 opportunities.
32:49 They’ll actually probably see more, probably more opportunities
32:52 for more programs.
32:54 This question was about free lunch.
32:57 Cape View is sometimes a Title I school and sometimes not.
33:01 It kind of hovers on that line of being a Title I school or not.
33:06 And Title I school is a school that receives federal funds
33:09 because they have a high percentage of free and reduced lunch
33:12 students,
33:13 a high percentage of students who qualify or families who
33:14 qualify for free and reduced lunch or government assistance.
33:17 And so Cape View is a Title I school right now.
33:20 It’s not always, but it is right now.
33:22 So free lunch program, would that transfer to Roosevelt?
33:25 Probably not, because our initial math is that the ratio wouldn’t
33:28 be high enough, the percentage wouldn’t be high enough.
33:32 But the students who qualify for free lunch would qualify for
33:34 free lunch.
33:35 It’s not the entire school wouldn’t.
33:37 So once you get a certain number, the whole school qualifies.
33:41 But individual families, if they qualify, they qualify, whether
33:44 the school as a whole does or not.
33:46 So students who are from a family facing economic challenges,
33:51 they’re still going to get whatever support they’re going to get.
33:54 You know, same type of support, free lunch and that kind of
33:57 thing.
33:58 What steps would be taken to ensure staff stability and minimize
34:01 disruption?
34:02 As I said earlier, we actually have contract language for the
34:04 teachers that says, you know,
34:07 if you’re displaced due to low and declining enrollment or stuff
34:10 like that,
34:11 then you’ll have right of first refusal over right to interview
34:14 for open positions around the district.
34:17 There’s a whole process and timeline that we follow if this were
34:20 the case.
34:21 If the board did move forward with consolidation at the meeting
34:23 in January 20th,
34:25 then we start the process of identifying all open positions for
34:29 next year.
34:30 And the teachers at KPU would have the first crack at all those
34:32 open positions.
34:34 You know, a lot of them would probably follow their students to
34:37 Roosevelt,
34:38 but if they chose they wanted to go somewhere else, they would
34:40 have the first crack at those other open positions.
34:44 This obviously was from a KPU family.
34:46 How can we maintain KPU’s strong culture and sense of family
34:48 through the process?
34:50 We’ve already talked with both principals and how if we move
34:53 forward with consolidation,
34:55 how we will then try to incorporate both schools’ traditions
35:00 together.
35:02 You know, kind of almost create a new school, maybe a new school
35:05 mascot,
35:06 new school themes and new school traditions and that kind of
35:09 thing based on what they both have in place currently.
35:12 The good thing about elementary school populations, mostly
35:16 teachers and staff,
35:17 is they’re very welcoming, very team oriented, so I imagine the
35:21 Roosevelt family would welcome the KPU students
35:24 and they would create a new culture and tradition of a combined
35:29 KPU and Roosevelt.
35:31 What will happen to the KPU building if consolidation occurs?
35:34 That’s up to the board to decide, but, you know, our
35:37 recommendation, staff’s recommendation would be to sell the
35:39 property.
35:41 Sometimes when you close a school in a certain area due to
35:43 declining enrollment,
35:45 you want to hold on to that property because you might see
35:47 enrollment increasing in the future.
35:50 That was the case, I think, in some areas like Titusville when
35:53 the shuttle program went down at one point and came back up.
35:56 We don’t see all of our analysis and everything that we’ve
36:00 looked at with that push towards short-term rentals
36:05 and everything over on the beach side.
36:08 We don’t see there being a need for a school in that zone in the
36:11 future,
36:12 so we would recommend that we sell that property.
36:16 And that is the last of the questions.
36:20 Thank you, Dr. Endell.
36:22 Since this meeting was called by Kate Canaveral and Mr. Morrison,
36:25 we wanted to give you the floor for any topics of discussion and
36:28 we appreciate you guys being here.
36:29 And just so everybody knows, just for the record, this is not a
36:31 vote today to close a school.
36:34 This is more about a discussion to bring up any ideas and things
36:37 that we may not have seen
36:38 or just discuss any questions you guys might have. So, thank you.
36:42 Thank you, Chair and Dr. Endell and, again, the entire board for
36:46 accepting this joint workshop meeting today.
36:51 I think that that presentation was very helpful in hearing some
36:55 of those responses.
36:57 I think it does clear some confusion in the community, so thank
37:00 you for sharing that with us.
37:03 I think that the big goal, when we look at kind of that last
37:09 question that talked about what happens to the Cape View
37:13 building,
37:14 or I’m sorry, the culture of Cape View, we’re asking that same
37:18 question for our city.
37:20 And we acknowledge and recognize that the board has full
37:23 authority to make decisions for the schools,
37:26 but from a land use perspective, we’re looking if that reality
37:30 happened
37:31 and the challenges we do face with short-term rentals, what does
37:35 that mean for our city, for our land use, for our comprehensive
37:39 plan?
37:40 And so today, my hope would be that you know we are here
37:43 offering a helping hand.
37:46 Maybe some cities haven’t been willing to do this in the past,
37:50 but I think our city is represented in the resolution that we
37:54 sent.
37:55 And so before going into, I’d like the council to have the
37:58 opportunity to speak or ask any questions if that’s okay.
38:02 But I think the big goal would be with the January 20th date
38:07 public hearing scheduled ahead of us,
38:11 is this board willing to work with our city to explore and
38:15 entertain options?
38:17 I don’t have necessarily the solutions. I have ideas.
38:21 There’s a lot of great ideas in the community, none of which I
38:23 think has swayed the board up to this point,
38:26 and I respect that and understand it.
38:28 But the challenge is real for the school board, the cost,
38:32 and I appreciate the efforts that has went in to figure out ways
38:35 to improve the quality of education for our kids.
38:39 But the change in the quality of life from our community, from
38:43 that central city viability,
38:46 losing a school, and it’s not our only elementary school, it’s
38:52 our only school at all.
38:54 And so we see the short-term mental problem. We are pushing back.
38:58 We are maintaining a seven-day minimum and keeping that in force.
39:02 We’ve doubled down on efforts to try and figure out how to get a
39:05 better handle on that so that property owners respect our local
39:11 codes.
39:12 We see the data with the changes in potential families and
39:16 demographics to the area,
39:18 and I think if the school board is pursuing submitting in the
39:25 five-year work plan
39:28 the intention to close Cape View after the hearing, I think that
39:33 step makes sense.
39:37 I would ask that if you submit it, would the board be willing to
39:40 consider submitting it this year
39:43 but putting it out at a later date with the obvious reservation,
39:47 knowing you could choose to close it sooner than that date?
39:51 And we go under a one-year period to work with the school, maybe
39:55 two to three meetings,
39:58 and potentially a task force of some sort to say Cape Canaveral
40:04 is willing to help and step in
40:08 and try to take advantage of what we think is a very unique
40:11 property. It’s on the ocean.
40:14 Roosevelt’s a unique property. Right on the lagoon, they both
40:17 have their complementary strengths.
40:19 We’ve got community partners. We’ve got a lot of opportunities,
40:24 and we see these demographic changes as real.
40:27 We accept them, but also I do have some optimism in the future
40:31 that these will change in the Cape Canaveral.
40:34 So much money goes into tourism and driving it, and not a lot of
40:37 money goes into families.
40:39 We pull our weight. Cocoa Beach pulls its weight in tourism.
40:43 I think the two communities make up 80 percent of all the short-term
40:47 rentals in the entire county,
40:49 and so when the state really put handcuffed school board and us
40:53 on some of the things,
40:54 whether it be school choice or our ability to regulate, those
40:58 things are not between us.
41:00 That’s a higher power sort of handcuffing us, and I think we do
41:04 have some tools that we can use and explore,
41:08 whether it be funding partnerships and a series of conversations.
41:14 And at the end of a review period, if it was January of next
41:17 year, the school board says that’s a good plan,
41:21 but we’re not willing to commit to that side, or the city says
41:24 we’re not willing to commit to our side.
41:27 I think the school board obviously has the right and should move
41:31 forward with the decision that you want to make.
41:35 So I just wanted to express I understand where you are.
41:39 I respect the school board’s authority, and we here as a city
41:43 are looking at how does this impact our community,
41:47 the neighborhood, the walkability, the convenience of Cape View,
41:52 the partnerships that we have with our buildings.
41:55 We can do more with our shared buildings, and I think knowing
41:59 now that this is moving fast for us,
42:03 the boundary change starting a few months back and ultimately
42:07 ending in potentially January through the holidays
42:11 has been a real challenge for us to figure out what we can do.
42:16 I’ve got some ideas. I know that the council probably has some
42:20 ideas as well.
42:21 So with that, I wanted to lead with my hope that today we would
42:27 walk away with the willingness to work together
42:32 and go under a review period, at least for a year, and to try to
42:36 explore some alternatives in a very difficult decision.
42:40 The numbers don’t lie. As Dr. Rendell shared and Sue and the
42:44 team here has shared, we see those numbers,
42:47 and I see the challenge. Even I went beyond the 10 years. I went
42:52 20 years back and saw those changes through the community.
42:56 And so I think we can do it, and if not, I think we have the
43:01 right school board and city council and supporting staff.
43:05 If there is a way, I did not want to say we did not at least try
43:08 to work with the school board and do our part as a city.
43:13 It’s our only school. It’s really important to us, and it’s a
43:16 part of our community.
43:18 And so thank you again for today. Chair, if you’d be okay, I’d
43:23 like to just – I wanted to lead with that as a hope.
43:27 If this council would like to go, Mayor Pro Tem Jackson.
43:36 They are telling me this is on, but okay. Thank you. Just make
43:41 sure.
43:43 I concur with Mayor Morrison. We want to work with you all. I
43:49 can see the difficulty.
43:51 During the pandemic and afterwards, we had a lot of people that
43:56 chose to homeschool.
43:58 You now have school choice. That’s another thing that’s been
44:02 thrown in.
44:04 So it really changes the numbers in each individual school.
44:09 And like our mayor just said, absolutely support you all and
44:14 want to work with you.
44:17 Now, for those that don’t know me, I deal with vacation rentals.
44:22 And every time I hear this, oh, there’s so many short-term
44:26 rentals, I’m cringing.
44:28 Because right now, we’re going through changes in that short-term
44:32 rental market with some of those short-term rentals being down
44:36 more than 40% this year.
44:39 What this has created, because a lot of people purchased homes
44:44 in Cape Canaveral during that pandemic era.
44:48 And they are struggling to pay their expenses.
44:52 And what they’re doing is flipping to long-term rentals with
44:56 long-term rental rates dropping from $2,500 for a small place
45:01 down to ones that I’m seeing at $1,200 in Cape Canaveral.
45:06 This has the potential to change our demographic. So we’re going
45:10 through a transitionary period right now.
45:13 One thing that I looked up on macro trends is that, believe it
45:18 or not, the year before last, I think it was 2023, our birth
45:24 rate actually skyrocketed that one year.
45:29 Now, we know that as you look at trending and accommodating for
45:33 schools, that’s one of the things you’re looking at with trends,
45:38 is because if the children aren’t there, there’s no reason to
45:42 have the school there, and I get that.
45:45 So I just wanted to say, I believe that we’ve got a market that’s
45:48 transitioning.
45:50 I have a very small number of units that I deal with, and I’ve
45:54 had three of them sell in the last year.
45:58 Because they aren’t making their numbers. They bought in at the
46:01 peak of the pandemic.
46:03 And I think that, in my opinion, but I’m not sitting in your
46:08 seat, I believe that what we’re doing, we may be early on it if
46:14 we’re going through this transition.
46:16 Now, having said that, I also sat down and did a market analysis
46:21 of Brevard County, and I was astounded to find the cities with
46:26 average prices of home sales,
46:29 because literally we have four, let me see, one, two, three,
46:33 four, five, six, seven cities within Brevard that increase this
46:38 year.
46:39 I’ve got nine listed that decreased. And the averages, we’ve got
46:47 Cape Canaveral, that our average home price is $375,000.
46:52 We have India Atlantic, that’s $760,000. Indian Harbor Beach,
47:00 that’s $530,000.
47:03 Melbourne declined at $373,500. Palm Bay, $322,000.
47:12 Satellite Beach, $595,000. Titusville, $313,000.
47:19 And Vieira Sun Tree, $575,000 is their average price. And West
47:24 Melbourne is $395,000.
47:27 So what this means when you look at affordability for families,
47:31 and that’s truly some of the trending that you all as a school
47:35 board have on your plate,
47:37 I’m sure, is that truly Cape Canaveral is one of the ones that’s
47:42 an affordable area for families.
47:46 Anyway, you’ve got Titusville that’s the most affordable at $315,000
47:52 average. Palm Bay at $322,000 average.
47:57 Port St. John at $335,000 average. Melbourne at $373,000 average.
48:05 And Cape Canaveral at $375,000. Cocoa at $375,900. And West
48:13 Melbourne at $395,000.
48:17 So those areas are the ones that are the most affordable for
48:21 families as we look at the space race exploding in our county.
48:27 Those are the areas if people are looking for housing for
48:30 families and they’re within a budget, those are the cities they’re
48:34 going to look at.
48:36 They’re going to look at where they can afford to be.
48:39 So we’re squarely in the middle on the affordability range for
48:44 young families looking to relocate to Florida here or here in
48:49 the Space Coast.
48:50 It’s close to the Space Center where we have a space race with
48:53 China to get to the moon and where business is booming for
48:56 Kennedy and the United States Space Force.
49:00 So the remainder of the cities that are listed are $400,000 and
49:03 up.
49:04 And that makes it questionable whether young families can afford
49:09 that much housing based on their pay.
49:13 So I know that this seems like I’m just reaching out there.
49:20 However, I believe that we need to look at trends.
49:23 And my fear is that we’re doing this in a transitional market.
49:30 And you all are educators. You know that when you close a school,
49:36 it costs you a lot more money to open a school back up when you
49:40 need to.
49:41 And there have been plenty of cases throughout the U.S. where
49:44 that has happened and cost the school board more money reopening
49:49 a school.
49:50 So I’m in concurrence with our mayor if we could have a date
49:54 that’s reasonable to work with so that we can watch these trends.
50:00 I’ll be happy to watch the trends with you and give you feedback
50:03 and work with you.
50:05 My fear is this is premature because if these short-term rentals
50:10 flip over to long-term, there will be families that want to move
50:16 to that area.
50:17 And Cocoa Beach is out of range for some of those families.
50:24 Councilmember Willis.
50:27 First, I want to thank you for allowing us to be here.
50:30 But I agree with the mayor. It would be in our best interest if
50:34 we could push this out a year.
50:37 One of the things that I wanted to know or find out was what
50:41 options have you looked at?
50:44 I mean, we’ve seen the report. This is the recommendation.
50:49 But what options were looked at? What possibilities could it be
50:54 if we’re going to possibly extend it out a year to search for
50:59 those?
51:00 I want to know what you’ve already looked at and understand why
51:05 you didn’t go that route if there was one.
51:09 But all of us here are elected officials. We understand that we’re
51:16 making tough decisions, and the public doesn’t always see the
51:20 choices that we have.
51:21 They can only see the decision we make.
51:24 But I appreciate you listening to us.
51:27 But I would really like to educate myself on all of the options
51:30 that you’ve looked at and see where we can possibly help.
51:37 So that is all I have right now.
51:41 Thank you. Councilmember Shaye King?
51:44 Thank you.
51:45 And thank you all for holding this meeting today.
51:48 I have a couple of questions or points that I’d like to make.
51:51 And I want to echo Mayor Pro Tem Jackson about the transitioning
51:54 that we are experiencing in Cape Canaveral.
51:58 It’s rapid. It’s mind-blowing.
52:00 And I suspect that with the space programs growing as rapidly as
52:05 they are,
52:06 young engineers are going to be coming in.
52:09 Young engineers usually have families or they’re starting
52:11 families.
52:12 And they’re going to be looking for housing.
52:14 Titusville, Merritt Island, and Cape Canaveral.
52:18 We don’t know yet if that’s going to happen.
52:21 We’re going to be watching it closely.
52:23 And as Mayor Pro Tem Jackson pointed out, some of these Airbnb
52:26 short-term rentals aren’t cutting it financially.
52:30 So that means that they’re going to be sold.
52:33 Those would make nice starter homes for some of these young
52:35 engineers coming in.
52:37 That’s my first point.
52:39 The second point is, I have a question.
52:42 What condition is the Roosevelt facility in?
52:47 We’ve been told that it would cost between $5 and $7 million to
52:51 bring Cape View to a level that it needs to be.
52:57 Has it been compared with the condition of Roosevelt Elementary?
53:00 I’m just curious about that.
53:02 And if you can answer those questions, I would appreciate it.
53:05 Thank you.
53:08 Thank you for having us here today.
53:11 My biggest concern is we’re going to close down the only school
53:13 we have in our city.
53:15 And that’s going to put us at a disadvantage.
53:17 I don’t know if there are any other cities that don’t have
53:19 schools.
53:20 But I just think that’s going to be a competitive disadvantage
53:23 in getting in new residents and new families.
53:26 Because we’ll say, hey, we’ll go to the next city that has a
53:29 school.
53:30 And is there any kind of way they could close down part of the
53:35 school and not use it all since it’s underutilized?
53:38 Just reduce the capacity of it rather than spending $5 or $7
53:41 million or whatever it is to upgrade the whole facility?
53:45 Could that be an option and just make it a smaller school
53:49 overall?
53:51 Thank you.
53:54 Thank you, Chair, for allowing us a chance to speak.
53:58 Thank you, guys. Appreciate your feedback and appreciate your
54:01 professionalism and bringing all your concerns.
54:04 I think before we get started, board, I know that they had asked
54:07 us some of our opinions.
54:09 There’s some questions, I think.
54:11 I’m not sure if our staff would be willing to answer, but the
54:13 condition of Roosevelt and those things was hand.
54:16 Could you speak to that?
54:18 And then if you, Dr. Rendell, or Ms. Hsu, can speak to closing
54:25 down part of the school, what that would look like?
54:28 I’ll respond to the first question, which was what other options
54:31 did we pursue or what other options did we look at?
54:34 WXY, as part of their study, gave us all kinds of different
54:37 options.
54:38 They settled on the recommendation of consolidation in this case
54:42 because you have two schools that are under 50 percent
54:45 enrollment,
54:45 under 50 percent utilize, that are close together.
54:48 One of the buildings is older and requires more work, so using
54:51 that approach, consolidation is the best option.
54:55 The only answer really is to increase enrollment.
55:01 That’s the only answer where it becomes fiscally, violently
55:04 responsible to operate the school is to get it back up to 500
55:07 students plus.
55:09 And there aren’t any students that we could draw from nearby
55:12 neighborhoods.
55:14 Across the river you have some elementary schools in Merritt
55:16 Island, one of those being a choice school.
55:19 Down the road you have Roosevelt, already a school that is under
55:22 enrolled.
55:23 You can’t really steal population from there.
55:26 And then we have a choice school on the beach side as well in
55:28 Freedom 7.
55:29 So there’s really no population to draw from.
55:32 If you have an under enrolled school, if a nearby school was
55:34 over enrolled, then you would just rezone.
55:37 Split the student enrollment up.
55:40 So we did look at that.
55:42 There is no place to steal the students, so to speak.
55:44 No place to draw the students from without creating another
55:47 situation at that same situation.
55:50 Magnet program or some kind of choice option, well we already
55:53 have a magnet school further down the beach in Freedom 7 choice
55:57 school.
55:58 And then across the river at Stevenson in Merritt Island.
56:02 But all of our schools are choice schools.
56:04 Like Florida, as I said earlier, is a choice state and we’re a
56:06 choice district.
56:07 So families already have the option to choose KVU and some do.
56:12 There are some that aren’t zoned for KVU that go there.
56:15 So some other kind of magnet attractor is probably not an option.
56:19 So we did look at other options.
56:21 As far as closing part of the school.
56:25 It might save us on some electrical costs,
56:29 you know, it might save us a little bit on overhead,
56:31 but it’s really staffing.
56:33 You know, we would still staff the school for 500,
56:37 and we only have 250.
56:39 And aside from teachers, it’s the artillery staff,
56:42 so the principal, assistant principal, administrators,
56:46 you know, the full-time media specialists,
56:47 the full-time cafeteria staff.
56:50 So, you know, that’s where the overhead is
56:53 when you have an under-enrolled school.
56:55 That’s where you’re not operating efficiently.
56:59 So now I’ll let Suhan talk about condition of Roosevelt
57:03 versus condition of KPU.
57:07 So generally speaking, they’re in about the same condition,
57:11 they’re about the same age,
57:12 and over the next five to eight year period,
57:15 they both need about five to seven million dollars
57:17 in improvements, so they’re pretty similar
57:20 would be the answer to that.
57:23 (clears throat)
57:26 So in the balance of things,
57:30 how was it that Roosevelt was chosen to be the recipient
57:33 as opposed to KPU being Roosevelt’s recipient?
57:38 Children.
57:40 I’ll start, okay.
57:41 So the feeder chain goes to Coco Beach Junior Senior High
57:45 School, and Roosevelt is adjacent to Coco Beach Junior
57:48 Senior High School, so that seemed like the better approach.
57:51 From a facility standpoint, we’re pretty neutral
57:55 as to which goes which direction,
57:57 but I think from an educational point of view
58:00 and transportation and things like that,
58:01 it made more sense to consolidate into Roosevelt
58:04 than into KPU.
58:09 There are also a couple unique elements
58:11 at the Roosevelt campus.
58:13 It used to be a middle school, so it has a gymnasium.
58:16 Most elementary schools do not have a gymnasium,
58:18 so that’s a really benefit to have a gymnasium,
58:21 especially if it’s a school with 500 or so students.
58:24 And there are some other buildings that,
58:27 the cafeteria’s bigger, there are things that,
58:29 because it was an old middle school,
58:31 that made it more attractive to consolidate there.
58:37 Okay, I’d like to open it up to the floor to anybody
58:40 from our side that might want to have conversations
58:42 based on it.
58:45 Okay.
58:46 First of all, I appreciate the opportunity
58:48 to have the two bodies get together.
58:50 I wish we’d done this earlier, I think it was a great idea,
58:53 so kudos to you guys for asking for it.
58:57 Obviously, it makes financial sense from a black and white,
59:00 it’s almost a no-brainer why this is an option.
59:04 But there are other factors to take into account,
59:08 and Ms. Jackson, your argument was probably
59:11 one of the best ones I’ve heard to the counter,
59:16 since out of all the discussions we’ve had.
59:19 My concern is, obviously, Title I funding,
59:23 and there’s other little things that get the improvements
59:25 that will have to be made to Roosevelt
59:27 to bring on kindergartners and first graders
59:29 and bathroom additions and things of that nature,
59:32 that’s all minor stuff.
59:33 My biggest concern is making sure
59:36 that we keep enough capacity,
59:38 ‘cause we don’t know what the space industry’s gonna do.
59:40 We don’t know what the Patrick Space Force base
59:42 is gonna do.
59:44 And there’s probably no way to project,
59:47 with 100% certainty, because it’s a growing industry
59:51 and things come out of the woodwork.
59:53 We don’t know what’s gonna happen tomorrow.
59:55 But that being said, I’m personally trying
59:59 to meet with Space Florida,
1:00:01 and to meet with Patrick Space Force Base and EDC
1:00:04 to try to learn, are there anything,
1:00:07 is there anything that they can, in the foreseeable future,
1:00:09 see coming down the pike that might change
1:00:12 the need for capacity?
1:00:13 I agree with you, and as far as the affordability,
1:00:15 I think that’s huge, because if the space industry
1:00:18 does continue to grow at the rate that it is,
1:00:20 and there is a workforce coming,
1:00:22 they have to go somewhere,
1:00:23 and they all can’t afford to go to the air.
1:00:25 So that’s certainly a consideration.
1:00:27 I appreciate you guys bringing that up.
1:00:29 It’s certainly something.
1:00:31 I’m sure each of us are weighing it heavily.
1:00:34 I know it’s, nobody’s taking this decision lightly,
1:00:36 and I just want you to know it didn’t fall on deaf ears.
1:00:38 I’m certainly weighing that,
1:00:40 and will consider that as I investigate further.
1:00:44 - Ms. Campbell?
1:00:50 - I’m gonna echo my thanks, and as I said,
1:00:52 to some of the Cape View parents who shared before,
1:00:54 I don’t expect any different than for you
1:00:56 to fight for your city, because it’s not just a school.
1:00:58 It is a part of your city.
1:00:59 I recognize that it’s being the only school in your city,
1:01:02 and I did a little research a couple months ago,
1:01:04 okay, which cities don’t have a school?
1:01:07 And this would make Cape Canaveral
1:01:09 the largest city without a school.
1:01:10 I think you guys are just under 10,000 population,
1:01:13 and the other cities in our county
1:01:15 that don’t have a school are underneath that.
1:01:18 So, you know, like Grant-Balkaria,
1:01:22 and some of the other ones that don’t have a school.
1:01:24 So I understand, I don’t expect any different
1:01:26 than what you’re doing right now,
1:01:27 ‘cause you’re fighting for your people,
1:01:30 and for your community.
1:01:34 The questions, I think, have mostly been answered
1:01:37 by Dr. Endell and Ms. Ham.
1:01:42 I did wanna just share some things
1:01:44 as we’ve had these conversations,
1:01:46 just thoughts that have come through,
1:01:47 and information that’s been given,
1:01:48 and things that I’ve looked up.
1:01:50 You mentioned, Ms. Jackson,
1:01:52 about the homeschool families and the choice options.
1:01:55 One of the things that’s happening,
1:01:56 we’ve talked about short-term rentals a lot,
1:01:58 but one thing that’s also happening to the population,
1:02:00 not just in Cape Canaveral,
1:02:02 but in a lot of our beachside communities,
1:02:04 and across the country, is the graying of our community.
1:02:07 We just listened to a demographics presentation
1:02:09 at our FSBA conference last month,
1:02:11 and of course, Florida is getting
1:02:14 a huge influx of population,
1:02:15 but many places across our country,
1:02:17 and especially along the coastal parts of Florida,
1:02:19 the community is not just, it’s graying.
1:02:23 And so those meaning, it’s the same people
1:02:26 who have lived there forever,
1:02:26 their kids are grown and gone, they’re still there,
1:02:28 but there’s no more children.
1:02:30 So it’s not just the short-term rentals,
1:02:31 it’s the demographic shift that’s happening
1:02:34 as the people who are moving in don’t have kids.
1:02:36 And part of that is graying,
1:02:38 but also part of it is just our birth rates dropping.
1:02:42 So across the country, school districts
1:02:43 are having to deal with the fact
1:02:45 that there will be fewer kindergartners as we move forward.
1:02:49 And again, while Florida has received
1:02:51 a huge transfer in from other states,
1:02:55 that birth rate drop is not really,
1:02:58 that’s not really a thing
1:02:59 that we’re benefiting as much from.
1:03:00 Most of our population growth is coming from transfers in,
1:03:03 but it’s not necessarily meaning
1:03:05 of population growth in students.
1:03:06 And so it’s not just the short-term rental problem.
1:03:09 There is a great, an aging of our population
1:03:11 and a low birth rate thing that is compounding that.
1:03:13 But I mentioned the homeschool families
1:03:15 because I looked at, okay, what if everybody came back
1:03:19 that’s zoned, all of our school, from charters,
1:03:23 by the way, there’s only one that I could see,
1:03:25 our last numbers, I could only see one student
1:03:27 who lives in the city of that Cape View boundary
1:03:30 who actually goes to our charter school.
1:03:32 So charter schools aren’t pulling kids so much.
1:03:35 There may be some homeschool families
1:03:36 and we can’t calculate that number as much,
1:03:39 but considering the huge burst in homeschool options
1:03:43 in the last year that we have had across the district,
1:03:46 Cape View actually saw a very small dip.
1:03:48 So I don’t think that is, it’s not that there are,
1:03:51 that families are making other choices,
1:03:53 there just aren’t the kids.
1:03:56 But I want to recognize the changes
1:03:58 that we expect might happen.
1:04:00 I just have, I wanna push back,
1:04:02 and it would be information that it would be maybe researched
1:04:04 on the affordability thing, because I will tell you,
1:04:08 when I drove around Cape Canaveral a month or so ago,
1:04:12 what I saw was the great big beach houses
1:04:15 that hardly anybody can afford,
1:04:16 and a bunch of really little ones.
1:04:18 So I’d like to know what can you buy for $375,000
1:04:23 in Cape Canaveral in Palm Bay, West Melbourne,
1:04:26 Port St. John, it might be a bigger house.
1:04:31 That didn’t talk about size.
1:04:33 It’s average price, but if it’s average price
1:04:35 for a two bedroom, one bath,
1:04:37 what would be a great beach rental,
1:04:38 but not necessarily a great place
1:04:40 to bring up a handful of kids?
1:04:42 I don’t know that, I don’t know that.
1:04:44 And I know my community, I know Palm Bay
1:04:48 sometimes gets a bad rap, but you can buy a lot of house
1:04:51 in Palm Bay for $375,000, and a bigger lot
1:04:56 than even where I live in West Melbourne.
1:04:59 So that’s the other reason why families
1:05:02 are looking at other places.
1:05:03 It’s because it’s not just the price tag,
1:05:06 but how much house can I get for that,
1:05:07 especially if you’re raising kids.
1:05:11 But we did look at other options.
1:05:14 I listened to lots of parents, stood out in the parking lot
1:05:16 and talked to a handful of people about the choice options.
1:05:18 Thank you, Mr. Willis.
1:05:20 They wanted to know about the choice schools.
1:05:21 Dr. Rendell didn’t mention this,
1:05:23 but those two choice schools
1:05:25 are less than 15 minutes each way.
1:05:27 One of them is 11 minutes drive,
1:05:29 the other one’s like 12, 13 minutes.
1:05:32 So families have choices, and to be completely honest,
1:05:36 as someone who lives way down in the south end,
1:05:39 it would take a lot, even if we didn’t have those,
1:05:41 to track people to the farthest, most avoy school
1:05:44 that we have, a beautiful school.
1:05:46 I went there in December, and you can see
1:05:48 the dunes from the playground, it’s beautiful.
1:05:50 But it would take a lot to get people
1:05:51 to fight that traffic and that distance
1:05:53 to come from other schools, but since we do have
1:05:56 those two choice options right there on the doorsteps,
1:05:59 that’s what makes making it a special center difficult.
1:06:07 But those are the things that I’m thinking of.
1:06:09 Thank you, Mr. Shoryak, for mentioning that.
1:06:12 But again, 80%, actually over 80% of our total budget
1:06:16 district-wide is people, 80 to 85.
1:06:19 It’s always been that way since I’ve been
1:06:20 on the board as people.
1:06:23 So I appreciate the things you guys have brought up.
1:06:27 I appreciate the concerns that the parents have brought up,
1:06:29 ‘cause those are things we wanna,
1:06:30 if we have already thought them through,
1:06:33 but we haven’t said it out loud,
1:06:34 we need to say it out loud, because we want the community,
1:06:37 not just Cape Canaveral, but the whole county to know,
1:06:40 no, we are thinking through these things.
1:06:42 And I say we as a board, I mean we as a district,
1:06:44 because the staff has spent so much time,
1:06:46 and we spent the money to make sure
1:06:48 we had outside voices to help us with that.
1:06:51 But WXY didn’t make the decision.
1:06:54 They gave us the data, and then we moved forward.
1:06:56 But we wanted that information from someone
1:06:59 who was looking at it.
1:07:01 And to be completely honest, an additional factor
1:07:05 that’s actually, we were already moving in this direction.
1:07:07 The staff was presenting this to us,
1:07:10 starting in the last year and in the fall.
1:07:13 But since then, the pressure from the state on us,
1:07:16 on school districts, has been increased.
1:07:19 And I don’t know how much you follow education news,
1:07:22 but Florida’s got their own doge system going on now,
1:07:26 and just to be completely honest,
1:07:27 I read an article that the person who’s heading that up
1:07:30 has said they want to look at school districts first.
1:07:32 And our commissioner of education sat in front of a room
1:07:35 full of school board members a month ago,
1:07:38 and told us that we are leaving under-enrolled schools open.
1:07:42 Now, he said that to us in a word,
1:07:48 saying that we weren’t being responsible to our taxpayers.
1:07:52 What I, if I had had a personal conversation with him,
1:07:54 what I would tell us is our taxpayers
1:07:56 love their small schools.
1:07:58 And our taxpayers, and certain communities,
1:08:00 don’t want us to close their small schools.
1:08:02 And so I get that.
1:08:04 I still think staff’s moving along
1:08:06 and we need to make the decision,
1:08:07 but I just wanted to let you know,
1:08:08 there is an extra pressure that is actually adding on
1:08:12 of the state looking at us and saying,
1:08:14 why are you doing this?
1:08:16 And some pressure.
1:08:17 And there’s been some conversation about schools of hope.
1:08:19 That doesn’t really apply necessarily to Cape View,
1:08:22 because it’s not in the right zone.
1:08:25 Even though we did get a letter,
1:08:26 that’s not part of this and all that happened
1:08:28 after we were already heading that way.
1:08:30 But to not confuse the issue,
1:08:31 I just want to let you know that we are,
1:08:33 we are going to be facing additional pressure.
1:08:35 And so even though we’re looking at Cape View this year,
1:08:38 it may not be the last school or community
1:08:41 that we have to look at and say,
1:08:43 is this the best use of taxpayer dollars?
1:08:49 It’s really tough decisions and it’s super not fun.
1:08:53 But I do appreciate you guys sharing concerns.
1:08:55 And if we, after we get done going down the line,
1:08:58 if you guys come up with another one,
1:09:00 please, by all means, share it,
1:09:01 ‘cause we want to make sure we get everything out,
1:09:03 I feel like, on the table today
1:09:05 and have all those questions answered
1:09:07 so that the public knows that we have
1:09:10 thought of everything that we can.
1:09:12 Thank you, Mr. Chair.
1:09:13 - Thank you, Ms. Campbell.
1:09:14 Mr. Trenton, did you have anything?
1:09:16 - Sure, I guess I could have just recorded Ms. Campbell’s
1:09:20 and replayed it, ‘cause it was so good.
1:09:22 Thanks, Ms. Campbell, for being so thorough.
1:09:24 Again, thank you guys for knowing
1:09:28 the voice of your community that asked for this,
1:09:31 and you reached out to us,
1:09:32 and we’re happy to sit down to go over everything.
1:09:36 I think it was a great idea, Dr. Rendell,
1:09:39 going through the presentation.
1:09:40 I mean, it’s one thing to flip through slides
1:09:44 or look on our website and look at our presentations,
1:09:47 but to see it here and to hear it
1:09:50 and to have feedback on it is incredibly important,
1:09:53 so thank you for doing that.
1:09:58 I’m happy that you acknowledged the numbers are the numbers,
1:10:01 and that’s what we’re looking at here.
1:10:05 At the same time, having our finger on the pulse of people.
1:10:09 It’s more than just numbers that we deal with,
1:10:11 and you two as a city, it’s numbers and then it’s people,
1:10:15 and that’s a tough balance.
1:10:19 You’ve been struggling with, and I don’t just mean you,
1:10:21 I mean, communities have been struggling
1:10:24 with the short-term, long-term rental balance.
1:10:27 It’s been tough, because I’m sure you have people
1:10:30 in your own community that says,
1:10:32 that’s my property, I can do what I want.
1:10:34 So you have to deal with people and numbers as well.
1:10:38 So it’s always a tough decision,
1:10:39 but now that you’ve seen it out in front there,
1:10:42 we also get bogged down in our own little communities,
1:10:46 as I saw some online that say they’re acting
1:10:51 as if Cocoa Beach and Cape Canaveral
1:10:53 were their own little districts,
1:10:55 and not even thinking, probably, that we have 100 schools.
1:10:59 We have 86 or 85 traditional schools.
1:11:02 It’s a county district that we have to deal with.
1:11:05 And if we were spending 40% more per student in any district,
1:11:10 that would need our attention.
1:11:12 It isn’t just, we’re not picking on a A school, B school,
1:11:15 C school has nothing to do with that.
1:11:17 So these are tough decisions that we knew
1:11:20 was gonna be tough at the beginning.
1:11:21 That’s why we went out and got the WXY consultant group
1:11:26 that has gone through things
1:11:28 to think of everything possible.
1:11:29 Don Willis, you brought that up
1:11:32 about what other things that we thought of.
1:11:34 Well, they brought up a lot of things,
1:11:36 and things that we didn’t even think about.
1:11:38 But even the consultants said,
1:11:41 we’ve seen this many times over,
1:11:44 and consolidation is something that you should consider.
1:11:47 They never told us what to do.
1:11:48 Obviously, that’s what we’re doing here.
1:11:49 And we’re in a very unique position
1:11:51 that we have two schools
1:11:53 that are suffering from the same causes,
1:11:56 only seven miles apart, or even less than that.
1:12:00 So we’re actually fortunate to have that answer.
1:12:02 If we didn’t have that answer,
1:12:03 we’d have some major issues.
1:12:06 So after looking at everything,
1:12:08 you go through the positives, and the glass half full,
1:12:11 and Dr. Rendell brought that up about the opportunities
1:12:14 for the students,
1:12:15 and that we’re not going to have an overcrowded school
1:12:17 if this is the route we go.
1:12:20 So we gotta feel comfortable in that.
1:12:22 I think that the whole beach side,
1:12:24 and you guys know this, the whole Space Coast,
1:12:26 is really facing many of the same problems.
1:12:30 And when we talk about if the space industry does well,
1:12:35 things are gonna be great.
1:12:37 Well, the better the space industry does,
1:12:40 the more the prices are gonna go up,
1:12:42 and the less the families are gonna be able to purchase
1:12:45 in Cape Canaveral.
1:12:46 That’s true, that’s finance.
1:12:48 That’s supply and demand.
1:12:50 And when I look online here, it’s great,
1:12:52 but we have some realtors here as well.
1:12:54 You can’t buy a three-bedroom house in Cape Canaveral
1:12:56 for under a half a million dollars.
1:12:59 And it’s not gonna go down any time soon.
1:13:02 Real estate doesn’t, unless you’re looking at 2008,
1:13:06 and we can’t predict that.
1:13:08 But you brought up some great points,
1:13:10 and it is good to get it out.
1:13:12 Like Ms. Campbell said, if there’s anything
1:13:14 that we’ve thought of already
1:13:15 that we just didn’t get it out,
1:13:16 here’s a great time for us to get it out.
1:13:18 And we’re still looking into things,
1:13:20 and looking over numbers, and listening to people.
1:13:24 But it took you guys to ask for this meeting,
1:13:26 and we appreciate that.
1:13:27 I think your people in Cape Canaveral
1:13:31 are gonna appreciate the extra step.
1:13:33 And think about whatever we think about
1:13:35 here in Cape Canaveral.
1:13:36 We have a city just south of you in Cocoa Beach.
1:13:38 It’s gonna be in the same situation.
1:13:40 We have two schools, we saw that.
1:13:41 So we wouldn’t need to have one set of solutions.
1:13:44 We would need to have two sets of solutions.
1:13:46 So that’s about all I got here.
1:13:49 I know it’s just, it’s a tough thing
1:13:53 when you’re talking about your own community school.
1:13:56 So we thank you for bringing it up
1:13:58 and fighting for what you think is right.
1:14:02 - All right.
1:14:03 Well, let me just start off by saying
1:14:05 I, too, wanna echo the sentiments
1:14:06 that I appreciate the willingness to come together
1:14:08 and have this conversation.
1:14:09 My district is the most recent district
1:14:11 to have gone through a school closure,
1:14:12 so I understand what it does to a community,
1:14:14 and how they’re left raveling for years to come.
1:14:18 I understand that, I do.
1:14:20 What I’ll say with this situation
1:14:22 is that there’s a few things that we have that are,
1:14:24 I’m gonna call them somewhat of a blessing in disguise.
1:14:27 I looked at surrounding counties,
1:14:28 some of our other larger counties, school districts.
1:14:31 They’re closing a lot of schools.
1:14:33 I mean, some as many as 34 schools
1:14:35 that are on the chopping block.
1:14:37 And I’m going, okay, so I feel very fortunate
1:14:38 that we’re in Brevard, and we have the economy
1:14:40 that we have here.
1:14:41 One of the double-edged swords that we have
1:14:43 is, as Mr. Morrison indicated, 80% of the rentals
1:14:46 in all of Brevard County are beachside,
1:14:48 in Cocoa Beach and Cape Canaveral,
1:14:49 which means that that’s not where most people
1:14:52 are raising families.
1:14:53 I am sympathetic to the fact that the market
1:14:55 can be shifting, that can happen,
1:14:57 but we also have to face the reality of what is right now,
1:15:00 and how many dollars do we have,
1:15:01 and how are we gonna move forward
1:15:02 and be a good steward with the money
1:15:04 that we currently have, and not continue
1:15:06 on a trajectory that’s gonna be 2 1/2 million,
1:15:09 5 million, 7 1/2 million, and just keep on going.
1:15:12 One of the things that Mr. Trent brought up
1:15:13 that I thought, this is such a unique opportunity,
1:15:15 and I think this is something that will be very specific
1:15:17 to this community that no other community,
1:15:19 I think, within Brevard will have,
1:15:21 is that those students will have the ability
1:15:23 to go to school from kindergarten
1:15:24 through graduation together.
1:15:26 So right now, with Cape Canaveral and Cocoa Beach
1:15:28 having separate elementary schools,
1:15:30 they come together when it’s the middle school/high school,
1:15:32 so they may or may not have been
1:15:35 at the elementary with them.
1:15:36 So that’ll be a very unique opportunity
1:15:37 for that community to be able to say,
1:15:39 we’ve got to go to school with these kids
1:15:40 from kindergarten through graduation,
1:15:42 and that’s gonna build a community sense
1:15:44 that’s going to be very strong.
1:15:45 So I think that’s something to look at.
1:15:47 One of the other things that,
1:15:48 if this does go that direction,
1:15:50 the fact that an elementary school’s gonna have
1:15:52 an indoor gymnasium, that’s extremely unique,
1:15:56 and so there’s gonna be some opportunities
1:15:57 that will present themselves there as well.
1:15:59 So I know that everything is focused
1:16:01 on the negative, on this is not being a good thing,
1:16:04 but there are opportunities here
1:16:06 that this could end up being a really good thing
1:16:08 for the community.
1:16:09 It could build a sense of community
1:16:10 that strengthens Cape Canaveral
1:16:13 and really ties them together.
1:16:15 Again, I am sympathetic to this
1:16:18 ‘cause I know how much this is.
1:16:20 It’s scary, it’s unknown.
1:16:21 What’s it gonna look like?
1:16:22 How are our students gonna be impacted?
1:16:24 How are our teachers going to be impacted?
1:16:26 But I’m also of the mindset
1:16:27 that this could be a very, very good thing.
1:16:29 And we all are faced with having
1:16:32 to really make tough decisions
1:16:34 based on things that we didn’t create,
1:16:36 problems we didn’t create, so to speak.
1:16:38 So that’s one of the nuances of being in this position.
1:16:42 So I appreciate you guys being willing
1:16:44 to come and talk to us about this.
1:16:46 If it does go this direction,
1:16:47 and I don’t know that it will,
1:16:49 ‘cause again, the board’s gonna have to make this decision,
1:16:52 I would just hope that the community,
1:16:53 both communities, will be receptive
1:16:55 to trying to look at this as a unique opportunity
1:16:58 that only that community will have,
1:17:00 and that there might be some things there
1:17:02 that are very specific to Cocoa Beach, Cape Canaveral
1:17:05 that will improve that area,
1:17:07 not necessarily make it not a good thing.
1:17:10 So thank you, guys.
1:17:12 - Thank you, Ms. Wright.
1:17:14 For me, I wanted to let you guys know,
1:17:16 Mr. Morrison and I had conversations early about this,
1:17:19 and I told him where I would be looking.
1:17:21 A lot of the places that you guys have already mentioned,
1:17:23 I went through on a deep dive for.
1:17:26 On the rezones, I did look at that,
1:17:28 as an option, because we’ve done that in the past.
1:17:30 We’ve taken sections from other places,
1:17:32 and when you look at the surrounding opportunities,
1:17:35 if you take from any of those,
1:17:36 you lower them to a place where it’s even worse.
1:17:39 So that wasn’t an option.
1:17:41 Mr. Morrison and I had a conversation with the zoo,
1:17:45 because they have the aquarium out there,
1:17:49 and is there an opportunity there?
1:17:51 And when we had that conversation,
1:17:53 we realized that the zoo had already engaged
1:17:56 over at Cocoa Beach, and had a program running
1:17:58 with their aquaponics program and everything else there.
1:18:01 And kind of what we were similarly trying to put together
1:18:03 at Cape Canaveral was already in existence
1:18:05 over at Cocoa Beach.
1:18:06 And there was the conversation about splitting
1:18:09 and creating two other things,
1:18:10 and there was no want by certain organizations,
1:18:13 not just the zoo, but other places that I had contacted,
1:18:16 to create a charter school that would be in that realm.
1:18:19 So I tried as much as I could in there.
1:18:22 As far as, there’s some conversations earlier
1:18:24 about the Cape Canaveral and costs
1:18:26 of other cities, if you do the trend rates across,
1:18:30 and I’m not a realtor, so please,
1:18:32 like my deep dive that I looked at,
1:18:35 we find the most kids inside population
1:18:38 right in that three bedrooms where we see it,
1:18:40 because a lot of four bedrooms,
1:18:42 there’s not as many of them.
1:18:43 A lot of two bedrooms is not as populous.
1:18:44 So that’s usually where we look.
1:18:46 And if you look at the trends of,
1:18:48 Palm Bay is about $120,000 less to $150,000 less
1:18:52 per three bedroom, and it goes around,
1:18:54 like Melbourne’s about 100 less.
1:18:56 So those areas that I saw in that three bedroom,
1:18:59 and again, I’m not a realtor when I was doing it,
1:19:02 and this may be wrong, and I can look at your numbers
1:19:03 and stuff like that, but that’s what I saw,
1:19:06 indicated that families that were trying to look
1:19:08 for a place to afford may look in those places
1:19:10 when they move here.
1:19:11 So that was that.
1:19:13 I also looked at, and I was in the process
1:19:16 of possibly knocking on some doors,
1:19:17 ‘cause I do that, but I have not done that.
1:19:20 But the zones that are there are zoned
1:19:22 into Cape Canaveral already.
1:19:24 And I have talked to some people that live in the area,
1:19:26 not that they have kids, but they had told me
1:19:29 that their kids, they would rather have gone to Roosevelt.
1:19:32 And some of them that I am friends with,
1:19:34 which is not a good indicator, told me that the reason
1:19:38 that they homeschool or they’re not a part
1:19:40 of the school system was because they wanted
1:19:42 to keep them there and not attend Cape View.
1:19:44 Now that’s not an indication of an A school district
1:19:46 or whatever, that’s just who they were.
1:19:48 Those are those southern rim families that are inside
1:19:51 of the actual zone for Cape View.
1:19:55 As far as the educational value, I agree 100%.
1:19:58 A K through 12 model shows
1:20:00 the highest educational return, period.
1:20:03 When you have the schools real close to each other,
1:20:05 it’s one of the reasons we put the middle school here
1:20:08 in Vieira right next to the high school,
1:20:10 is it has a couple of options, but the educational,
1:20:14 the numbers that come out of it are extremely higher
1:20:16 than they are if they’re separated.
1:20:19 One of the reasons for that is that your students
1:20:21 can actually take upper level classes.
1:20:22 There’s opportunities to be part of clubs
1:20:24 that are not in other places.
1:20:26 So if I’m a student at the elementary school
1:20:28 and there’s some interesting things that are going on,
1:20:31 cross collaborative clubs, both in elementary school
1:20:34 and middle school, dealing with the environment,
1:20:35 dealing with sports, dealing with all of those things,
1:20:38 can all work together.
1:20:38 Coaches can walk down and help out at a school
1:20:41 right down the street than they can going all the way
1:20:44 to another city.
1:20:45 So the educational value that I, the research that I did
1:20:49 indicates more towards Roosevelt.
1:20:52 The cost of the buildings in my design
1:20:57 is one of the less factors of what I did,
1:20:59 but those numbers that Dr. Endell brought forward
1:21:02 were pretty close.
1:21:03 He put 2.5 and five, it’s give or take,
1:21:06 a little bit over that and a little bit under that.
1:21:07 It’s not, but it’s within $50,000 of those numbers.
1:21:11 So that was true.
1:21:12 The current trends right now of Cape View moving down
1:21:16 was significantly showing that downward trend.
1:21:20 And I even had these discussions with my wife
1:21:22 who is good friends with Mr. Morrison.
1:21:24 And we were talking about it and the trend rates
1:21:27 that Ms. Campbell brought up earlier
1:21:29 for birth rates and stuff like that
1:21:31 don’t indicate that there’s an opportunity
1:21:33 that even if people were able to afford,
1:21:35 that this would be a population boom in the area.
1:21:37 So we did do that.
1:21:39 And those are just some of the things that I put down.
1:21:41 I wanted to indicate for you guys,
1:21:43 again, just like Ms. Wright said,
1:21:45 we’re not in any place to make a decision today.
1:21:47 I just wanted to tell you guys what I,
1:21:49 when I did my research and I deep dove a lot of the angles,
1:21:52 this is what I found out.
1:21:54 And I’m continuing to go.
1:21:55 Like I may go knock doors, I’m not saying that I won’t,
1:21:58 but I really want to try to do a little bit more,
1:22:02 but that’s what I found.
1:22:03 So if you had any questions.
1:22:04 Ms. Campbell, you were writing some stuff down.
1:22:06 Did you have another question?
1:22:07 (indistinct)
1:22:08 She always, just so you know, we know each other so well.
1:22:11 So Ms. Campbell, Ms. Campbell usually starts
1:22:14 coming around and she wants to say something.
1:22:15 - No, no, I was making notes as I thought,
1:22:18 ‘cause we had a conversation about another school
1:22:20 earlier this last year.
1:22:21 And when it comes down to where our focuses are different
1:22:25 is our focus has to be on serving students,
1:22:29 not on serving buildings and not on serving cities.
1:22:33 And that makes it really tough.
1:22:35 But we have to keep our eyes laser focused
1:22:37 on serving students.
1:22:38 And this is not, it is tough to say,
1:22:47 but you know, and we try not to be territorial.
1:22:51 My school’s down in district five,
1:22:53 your school’s down up in district two.
1:22:55 But when I look at the numbers
1:22:57 and Dr. Rendell shared with us,
1:22:59 and he shared some of that with you today,
1:23:01 that we’re spending one and a half times
1:23:03 the average amount of dollars we’re spending
1:23:06 on students in other schools.
1:23:08 Which means that we’ve got some schools,
1:23:10 and I guarantee you, they’re in my area,
1:23:13 that we’re spending twice as much on students at Cape View
1:23:15 as we’re spending on some schools in Palm Bay.
1:23:18 And that’s hard for me to swallow.
1:23:23 And it’s not just because I love Palm Bay
1:23:24 more than I love Cape Canaveral.
1:23:26 Because it means we’re also spending twice as much
1:23:28 on Cape View students as we are in schools
1:23:30 in Titusville and in other areas in Cocoa
1:23:34 that are some really struggling schools.
1:23:38 And need all the support that they can get.
1:23:41 And that is a really hard thing for me to swallow.
1:23:43 So when it comes down to it,
1:23:45 I have to make my decision as a school board member
1:23:47 on what’s best for students.
1:23:48 And I know, well here, there have been some parents
1:23:52 that say what’s best for my student
1:23:54 is to stay at Cape View because they love their school
1:23:57 and they love their teachers.
1:23:58 And you know, it’s hard to imagine
1:24:01 when you have grown to love something
1:24:04 that you could find that same thing in another place, right?
1:24:07 I’m from Texas, you can probably hear it.
1:24:09 I love the state of Texas.
1:24:11 I just got back two days ago.
1:24:12 I love my family out there.
1:24:14 It’s hard to imagine that I would ever fall in love
1:24:16 and call home this place that I said,
1:24:19 never Florida because of the hurricanes.
1:24:21 But I’ve been here for 17 years, 18 almost.
1:24:24 And I love this place and I love the people.
1:24:26 So it’s hard for the families to think
1:24:29 that I could find a school and a place
1:24:32 that will meet my child’s needs at another location.
1:24:36 It doesn’t help your city.
1:24:38 Well like I said, I have to make my decision
1:24:40 on what’s best for students.
1:24:42 And so as we look at all these things,
1:24:46 that’s where my heart’s gonna go.
1:24:48 And my mind, I don’t make my decisions with my heart,
1:24:51 make ‘em with my mind and all of me.
1:24:53 But that’s the tough thing that makes our focus different.
1:25:00 But I know that you guys see that and I appreciate it again.
1:25:04 And I just hope, Mr. Chair, if we can open up
1:25:06 in case they had any other.
1:25:07 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:25:08 I was gonna lob it back to them.
1:25:10 - Mr. Chair. - Yeah, go.
1:25:11 - I just have one final question and comment.
1:25:13 First of all, I’d just like to thank Dr. Rendell
1:25:15 and Sue and the entire team
1:25:17 ‘cause it’s been a couple years of making and research
1:25:20 and exploring all this.
1:25:21 And so just know that nobody takes this decision lightly.
1:25:26 And a lot of work has gone into this.
1:25:27 And I’m speaking for myself.
1:25:29 This is for conversation, we’re spitballing it.
1:25:31 I’m not speaking for the board, I’m just curious.
1:25:34 And Mayor Morrison, you had mentioned
1:25:35 that the city would be interested in giving a helping hand
1:25:38 or working with the district.
1:25:40 So we have facilities repairs.
1:25:44 Maybe not all of them would be imminent,
1:25:45 but I know I’ve toured both of them.
1:25:46 And I’m just telling you from a novice’s eye,
1:25:49 looks like Cape View needs things immediately
1:25:51 where Roosevelt may need some things
1:25:52 to take on the new kids,
1:25:53 but it looks like it’s in great shape.
1:25:56 So to answer your question, Ms. King,
1:25:58 I just, that’s my personal observation.
1:26:01 But to ask you the question,
1:26:03 if we need some facilities repairs,
1:26:04 we obviously have operational deficits.
1:26:07 Would the city be, and this is me speaking once again,
1:26:08 but would the city be in a position
1:26:10 to provide some financial assistance
1:26:12 towards meeting those gaps and helping us,
1:26:16 you know, if we were to keep it open for a year,
1:26:18 help us, you know, to cover those costs
1:26:22 so it’s not such a big hit on our taxpayers
1:26:25 and on the district?
1:26:27 And I’m not asking for an answer right now.
1:26:28 I’m just saying that’s something
1:26:30 I would like to throw out there.
1:26:31 - No, I think now is the time.
1:26:34 And I will mirror what you said.
1:26:37 I’ll speak on behalf of myself.
1:26:38 Obviously, that would be a decision
1:26:40 the council would have to make.
1:26:41 But absolutely, I mean, when you look at our budget
1:26:44 and the timing of this boundary change,
1:26:46 you know, we pass our budgets,
1:26:49 and I can tell you there’s things in the budget
1:26:52 that would fall under, you know,
1:26:55 we’ll invest to avoid some outcome.
1:26:58 And if the outcome was that we’re gonna lose our school,
1:27:02 and what that means when that happens
1:27:05 to what I’ve called it the tipping point
1:27:07 of short-term rentals, I would say as me, Wes,
1:27:11 the individual, absolutely, we’d be willing to invest.
1:27:14 And with the physical repairs,
1:27:17 it doesn’t fix the enrollment problem.
1:27:20 The second thing I would say is with a beautiful building,
1:27:23 sure, maybe it goes up a little bit.
1:27:26 And but the enrollment strategies,
1:27:30 and that’s where we would need the school board’s help
1:27:32 and guidance, but if it’s funding and expertise
1:27:36 to talk about, because if we can improve
1:27:42 the education for the students by,
1:27:46 with your primary responsibility to do that,
1:27:49 by being good partners to say,
1:27:51 well, you can’t take them from other districts,
1:27:54 as Dr. Rendell said.
1:27:56 We can make the school safer,
1:28:00 aesthetically pleasing, the things that families want.
1:28:04 The second part is, well, how do we let people know
1:28:08 that you might get a lot more house for $350,000 inland,
1:28:14 but you do not get the amenities
1:28:17 that you get out in Cape Canaveral and Cocoa Beach.
1:28:20 So yes, you pay more, but where can you literally
1:28:24 walk down, like you said, to the dunes
1:28:27 and have that experience?
1:28:30 I met my wife in high school, but the reason,
1:28:33 the whole reason I lived in Cape Canaveral
1:28:35 was because Cape View existed.
1:28:38 And her brother, they moved out there
1:28:42 for that quality of life, and paid more
1:28:44 than what they were paying in Titusville.
1:28:47 And so I think we’ve seen just such a different time.
1:28:51 That was back in the 2000s.
1:28:54 But that decision today still holds merit,
1:28:56 and so yes, we drive by the school board member, Thomas,
1:28:59 and we see those improvements.
1:29:01 We’ve talked about that at a high level,
1:29:04 and we wanted the opportunity to know
1:29:06 if this board is even willing to consider,
1:29:09 with the January 20th coming up quickly,
1:29:12 my answer would be yes.
1:29:15 And I would argue that it’s probably
1:29:20 one of the highest priority expenditures to protect.
1:29:23 What makes Cape Canaveral truly unique
1:29:26 is we’re one of the few residential zoned,
1:29:28 and you can go all over Florida,
1:29:30 and where do you find pretty much exclusive
1:29:32 residential zoned right along the beach?
1:29:36 And we can sell that, and we can do better.
1:29:39 We’ve brought in an administrative team,
1:29:41 our city manager, Mr. Touchberry,
1:29:43 and our city attorney, Mr. Garganese,
1:29:45 who’s really made a transformation
1:29:48 with the department directors on how we’re addressing
1:29:51 short-term rentals, which is sort of the wild, wild west.
1:29:53 It just got out of control,
1:29:55 and we didn’t have a lot of things.
1:29:56 We’re starting to see those improvements paired
1:29:58 with Mayor Pro Tem and the council said,
1:30:01 but I think not only capital improvements in the facility,
1:30:07 but enrollment strategies that are complimentary
1:30:11 to say it’s a win-win.
1:30:13 We want families to move here.
1:30:14 We don’t want transient doors at the rate of what it is.
1:30:21 We’re heavily transient population today,
1:30:24 but the folks that are sitting here are all residents,
1:30:28 and we love our visitors,
1:30:30 but it has got to that point,
1:30:33 and we’re ready to push back,
1:30:35 and I think that’s a big change
1:30:37 from what’s been historical,
1:30:40 and so that’s why we say we feel like it’s moving fast.
1:30:47 Cape View has been a topic.
1:30:48 You can go back to the ’90s.
1:30:49 It’s always been a discussion of Cape View,
1:30:53 and I look at the data,
1:30:55 I guess, trying to find any optimism,
1:30:57 and I see that Cape View actually held
1:31:00 on the past few years,
1:31:03 and maybe even outperformed Roosevelt,
1:31:07 but 263 back in 2020, it held identical to 21.
1:31:13 It increased to 288, then it fell down again, 268,
1:31:17 and back up, so it’s sort of holding from 2020,
1:31:21 and I’m not a real estate professional,
1:31:24 but I appreciate all the work that’s went in
1:31:27 that the board shared.
1:31:30 None of us have a crystal ball,
1:31:31 but I think if there is an indicator
1:31:34 for both Roosevelt and Cape View,
1:31:36 is can we grow within ourselves
1:31:39 where we’re not moving boundaries and rezoning?
1:31:42 Can we change the types of investors in Cape Canaveral?
1:31:46 And I think it’s worth a shot,
1:31:49 but I know we could not do, if you did not have
1:31:52 the city’s support, I think your decision is even more clear,
1:31:58 but with our willingness and effort,
1:32:00 because we’re in a unique circumstance,
1:32:03 we believe Cape Canaveral certainly is inflated in price
1:32:07 due to the short-term rentals,
1:32:09 but I do think that’s coming down,
1:32:11 and I think that we can add to finding properties
1:32:17 where highly developed, but there’s some large properties
1:32:21 that are zoned commercially, and now with Live Local Act,
1:32:25 those can now become residential housing,
1:32:29 and so those are new things that just happen
1:32:32 that maybe can change this trend.
1:32:34 We do need to have, sounds like a three-bedroom house
1:32:37 is where most families, and so that’s the question.
1:32:40 - Ms. Su will tell you more about those numbers,
1:32:42 but that’s where I see it.
1:32:45 - And if we’re at 275 today, you know,
1:32:48 I don’t think it’s 500 next year, that’s not realistic,
1:32:51 but what would a meaningful progress be
1:32:54 to say we’re tracking, we’re getting there,
1:32:57 and so to me, to add another 200,
1:33:02 I guess the at least 200 homes, right, if not less,
1:33:08 and I think we do have the capacity for that,
1:33:11 but it’s not gonna be easy.
1:33:13 I don’t have all the answers, but investment,
1:33:15 from my perspective, absolutely, and thank you.
1:33:18 - Mr. Chair, I have a follow-up with that, if you want.
1:33:22 And I don’t know the answer to this,
1:33:23 I’m just, I’m not trying to put you on the spot.
1:33:24 Does the city of Cape Canaveral right now,
1:33:26 or are you guys entertaining any kind of incentives
1:33:29 to offer industry to come to the city,
1:33:31 not just relying on industry on the Space Center itself,
1:33:36 but actually trying to attract industry
1:33:39 or space-related companies to your city,
1:33:41 which automatically would bring families,
1:33:43 which automatically would want to make them locate there?
1:33:46 - I would ask our city manager.
1:33:47 I know that, yes, I’m aware of some conversations
1:33:50 meeting with NASA and the folks
1:33:51 with the growth that’s happening.
1:33:53 But Mr. Touchbury, if you would.
1:33:56 - Good afternoon, everyone.
1:33:57 Keith Touchbury, city manager for the city of Cape Canaveral.
1:34:00 I’m gonna invite Tamsen Bell, our community development
1:34:02 director, to come forward, and she can elaborate
1:34:05 in great detail regarding what efforts that we’re making.
1:34:08 I will tell you that we have conversations all the time.
1:34:11 - Microphone, please.
1:34:13 - With our businesses and industry.
1:34:15 I mean, good, we’re having conversations all the time
1:34:19 with our businesses and our industries.
1:34:21 We’re looking at what partnerships that we can engage in
1:34:25 with NASA and everything that’s going on
1:34:27 at the Space Center.
1:34:29 We are aware of some efforts to increase internship programs
1:34:33 that could bring students and other families to our area.
1:34:36 We have a CRA, of course, that can help
1:34:39 with development and growth.
1:34:41 But again, this is Tamsen Bell.
1:34:43 She’s our community development director,
1:34:44 and I’ll just defer to her.
1:34:47 - Well, thank you, Keith.
1:34:48 You covered a bunch of them as I was getting up here.
1:34:52 Yeah, there are a lot of state and local initiatives.
1:34:55 We have the ability to leverage state and federal programs
1:35:00 for workforce development.
1:35:01 We are, again, continuing to build partnerships
1:35:04 and getting to know our businesses and finding ways
1:35:07 that we can leverage public-private partnerships
1:35:10 to encourage investment.
1:35:11 There is workforce housing
1:35:14 and also economic development funding incentive programs
1:35:18 that are allowed in our CRA strategic plan,
1:35:20 which we could build out actual programs
1:35:23 to incentivize business attraction,
1:35:26 entrepreneurship development,
1:35:28 and business incubation and acceleration
1:35:32 through economic development incentives.
1:35:33 So we do have those programs in our tool belt
1:35:36 that we can further develop in partnership with our council
1:35:40 and our leadership and attorney and flesh those out.
1:35:42 And we’re also hoping that workforce incentives,
1:35:46 as far as related to housing and employment,
1:35:51 we can leverage some of those
1:35:52 since we’ve developed further enforcement
1:35:55 and management of our short-term rental housing.
1:35:59 So we’ve had some interest in trying to build out
1:36:04 a partnership to encourage student housing use
1:36:08 with our short-term community as well.
1:36:10 So short-term rental community as well.
1:36:12 So we have a few ideas in our pipeline to build out.
1:36:16 - There’s nothing existing at the moment,
1:36:17 but those are things you’re working on too?
1:36:19 - Yeah, and our strategic plan for our CRA
1:36:22 does allow for some financial incentives for that.
1:36:24 And then there are existing programs already
1:36:27 through CareerSource in the state as well
1:36:30 that we can use to help draw folks to our area.
1:36:35 - Thank you.
1:36:38 - You guys have anything else,
1:36:39 if you’d like to say anything else?
1:36:43 I’m gonna back over to you, yeah.
1:36:46 - I’m making sure I’m on there.
1:36:49 This will be my last question, I promise.
1:36:51 And I’m the fun one, you’ll probably realize.
1:36:56 And you said the word, the four letters, D-O-G-E.
1:37:01 And for the first time in Cape Canaveral,
1:37:03 this past budget season, we went line by line.
1:37:08 Over all administrative costs.
1:37:10 And I understand that you’re getting downward pressure
1:37:15 from the state on closing these schools.
1:37:20 Does the school board have any plan
1:37:24 to look at your budget line by line for efficiency
1:37:29 and for any type of inflationary spending
1:37:33 that may be just bad projections of what it might be?
1:37:39 And I understand where you are at
1:37:42 with the state giving you this pressure.
1:37:44 But maybe the state is not looking at the fact
1:37:49 that government efficiency can be more
1:37:52 than just closing a school.
1:37:55 And they’re giving you pressure to close the schools
1:37:58 that are underutilized.
1:38:00 However, as we said, Cape View,
1:38:03 this has been up and down with Cape View for years.
1:38:08 So I was wondering, what are your plans to doge yourself?
1:38:12 And have fun with that, because we doged ourselves
1:38:16 in our budget, more or less, with the mayor and I
1:38:20 extensively going over line by line item.
1:38:23 And it was painful for our staff.
1:38:26 They did a great job of making sure
1:38:29 that they brought back things to keep things within budget.
1:38:33 We dropped our taxes two years in a row.
1:38:36 And so I’m wondering, do you have any plan for that?
1:38:40 Because it would make it an easier conversation
1:38:43 with the state if we had the ability to say,
1:38:48 oh, we found this much that we can cut back overall
1:38:53 in our district for administrative costs
1:38:57 or cost overruns or anything like that,
1:39:00 if you wanted to keep a school open.
1:39:02 - Yeah, and I would, Dr. Rendell,
1:39:05 I mean, we do that every year,
1:39:06 but Dr. Rendell can probably speak to it.
1:39:08 But I would also say that regardless of where we do cut
1:39:11 and where we go, the costs of the school right now,
1:39:14 as far as the flatline costs are there, they exist.
1:39:18 They’re not gonna go away,
1:39:19 whether we were able to find savings in other places.
1:39:21 So go ahead, Dr. Rendell.
1:39:23 - Correct, I mean, I think the question is,
1:39:25 would we as an organization engage
1:39:27 in some kind of zero-based budgeting process?
1:39:30 We actually already do that every year.
1:39:32 We build our budget anew basically every year.
1:39:35 We actually have taken measures this year,
1:39:38 this current fiscal year,
1:39:40 to get leaner at the district office.
1:39:42 And we’ve done that.
1:39:43 We’ve reduced millions of dollars worth of positions
1:39:46 here at the district office.
1:39:47 We actually are meeting with staff
1:39:49 to do the same thing for next year,
1:39:51 to try to get leaner here at the district office.
1:39:53 But as Mr. Susan kind of pointed out there,
1:39:57 the costs for operating the school
1:39:58 are the costs for operating the school.
1:40:00 And when you’re only generating half
1:40:03 or less than half the money to operate the cost of the school
1:40:05 that’s inefficient.
1:40:08 But as far as us as a district going through our budget,
1:40:11 we do that every year.
1:40:12 - We do.
1:40:13 Thank you for asking. - Okay, understood.
1:40:14 And then just as a follow-up on this.
1:40:18 So there’ve been studies done,
1:40:20 and some of them even through universities
1:40:22 such as Brown and Yale,
1:40:24 where they’ve gone and done a comprehensive accounting
1:40:28 survey of costs when they close
1:40:32 and merge schools together versus if they didn’t.
1:40:36 And in 2024, they found that a lot of the school closures,
1:40:45 the money was absorbed into other expenses
1:40:48 and other costs for the district.
1:40:51 So truly, the comprehensive accounting survey that they did,
1:40:59 this was a student for her executive thesis,
1:41:03 her master thesis was Grace Miller.
1:41:06 She did this with Yale.
1:41:08 She studied the economics and the education.
1:41:11 Her analysis was of 109 districts between 2017 and 2020.
1:41:18 She found that mergers did yield some savings,
1:41:21 but it was soaked up by new spending such as higher salaries
1:41:25 in combined districts and higher cost by students
1:41:29 to and from schools further away,
1:41:31 as well as things that were needed within the district
1:41:35 and other areas.
1:41:36 So are we really going to save money by doing this?
1:41:40 - Ms. Jackson, I think that I can speak specifically
1:41:43 to that and then I have a couple of board members
1:41:44 that would probably sound.
1:41:46 So I was part of the team that came in and saved
1:41:50 Cape View originally when it got on the chopping block.
1:41:52 I raised funds, I came here to this board meeting
1:41:55 and I battled for it.
1:41:58 When those transitions were going on
1:41:59 and they closed some schools and then reopened them
1:42:02 and all that stuff, I will tell you confidently,
1:42:04 I said at that moment that those were not going
1:42:07 to be savings because I didn’t feel they would be
1:42:09 and I was right.
1:42:10 When it comes to this one, I will tell you,
1:42:12 I applied the same principles that I did back then
1:42:14 and found that the costs when you look at them,
1:42:17 ‘cause I did a deep dive ‘cause although I trust Dr. Mandela,
1:42:20 you always have to check it.
1:42:22 The costs are directly based upon the salaries of,
1:42:25 a portion of it is directly based on the salaries
1:42:27 of the actual staff.
1:42:30 Those salaries go up across the district.
1:42:32 So just because they moved to maybe Roosevelt,
1:42:34 doesn’t mean that the increase of salaries
1:42:36 is gonna all of a sudden happen.
1:42:38 It’s just that you move one unit to the other.
1:42:40 So the revenue as far as, or the cost of the actual staff,
1:42:43 which is about half to three quarters of it,
1:42:46 is going to be relatively the same.
1:42:50 As far as the facilities, that’s exactly what it is.
1:42:53 There’s no difference in cost,
1:42:55 whether you’re replacing a fan over at Cape View
1:42:57 and whether you’re replacing a fan over at Roosevelt
1:42:59 or somewhere else, it’s all gonna be the same.
1:43:00 So they’re pretty relative when you talk about
1:43:02 the differences between the two.
1:43:05 I think that, so when we looked at them,
1:43:06 I promise you, I did look at that from a 100% perspective
1:43:10 of let’s deep dive each one of these
1:43:12 and I feel confident that that was true.
1:43:14 And I will take a look at your comprehensive
1:43:17 ‘cause that’s what we’re doing, right?
1:43:19 But I will tell you that a lot of the school closures
1:43:22 and stuff like that that have happened in the past
1:43:24 were under kind of a different pretext.
1:43:26 And I also wanted to say that when I did the work
1:43:29 with X, Y, and Z, I deep dove into how they came up
1:43:32 with all of their numbers and some of theirs
1:43:35 also included some of those accounting principles.
1:43:37 So that’s all I have.
1:43:39 - Thank you. - Yes, ma’am.
1:43:39 - I appreciate that because I think it’s good
1:43:41 for all of us to understand and know these things.
1:43:44 And I’m always a hard question.
1:43:47 - Listen, you didn’t, that’s not a hard question.
1:43:48 We wanna answer it. - Just more specifics
1:43:50 so that we’re just very clear.
1:43:52 Whether a school has 260 students,
1:43:55 like Roosevelt and KP have right now,
1:43:56 or it has 500 something if we consolidate that,
1:43:59 or it’s got 700, 800, until we get over that,
1:44:03 they all have a principal.
1:44:05 They all have an assistant principal.
1:44:06 They all have a secretary.
1:44:08 They all have a bookkeeper.
1:44:09 They all have one or two clerks.
1:44:11 They all have a guidance counselor.
1:44:12 That’s six full-time staff that I just named
1:44:15 that, you know, with benefits,
1:44:17 you know, I’ve– - Cafeteria, janitorial.
1:44:20 - They all have a cafeteria manager
1:44:21 and janitorial staff.
1:44:24 In addition to that, regardless of if they have 260 kids
1:44:27 or 900, 1,000 kids, they all have a full-time music teacher,
1:44:31 a full-time art teacher, a full-time PE teacher,
1:44:34 and a full-time media specialist.
1:44:36 And I’m not gonna talk about things we fund out of millage
1:44:39 ‘cause that’s a separate bucket,
1:44:40 but those were all funding out of the general funds.
1:44:43 And so, and they’re all having ESC support services
1:44:47 and social workers and things like that.
1:44:49 So when we talk about, that is several hundred thousand
1:44:53 dollars just right there.
1:44:57 And then we talk about the, you know, there are some,
1:45:00 I get the, you know, water utilities efficiencies.
1:45:03 It’s gonna be some savings.
1:45:05 You have got the same number of people.
1:45:06 They’re gonna have to flush the toilet same number of days.
1:45:08 Maybe you don’t save so much on water.
1:45:09 But so that’s some of it.
1:45:10 But the people is the biggest part because,
1:45:13 and that’s where I, when I talk about the thing
1:45:16 I’m having a hard time swallowing is,
1:45:18 they’re almost every single elementary school
1:45:21 in the South End has got 600, 700, 800.
1:45:24 I’ve got some knocking on 1,000.
1:45:26 And if you count the two metal lanes together,
1:45:28 they’re the largest elementary school in the county
1:45:30 with about 1,500, 1,400, 1,500 kids.
1:45:33 Now, they’re separate, so they have separate.
1:45:35 But let’s say West Side,
1:45:37 which I think is our largest elementary school
1:45:39 in the South End.
1:45:40 They got a second AP, assistant principal,
1:45:43 but they, with almost 1,000 kids,
1:45:46 still only have one music teacher, one art teacher,
1:45:49 one PE teacher, one media specialist serving
1:45:52 four times as many kids.
1:45:54 So do you see where we’re coming from?
1:45:56 So the savings is in the people.
1:45:59 So this is not a savings that goes away and disappears
1:46:01 because we’re gonna be able to serve
1:46:02 the same number of students and still,
1:46:05 I’m gonna put this forward, serve them better
1:46:07 than the schools that are larger
1:46:10 if we consolidate to Roosevelt.
1:46:12 So that’s where the savings comes from.
1:46:14 So I appreciate the pushback,
1:46:15 but I just wanna get very specific.
1:46:17 This is what we’re talking about that Cape View has
1:46:19 for such a small number of students.
1:46:21 See, now you can see the great advantages they’re getting,
1:46:23 which is probably why their parents love it so much
1:46:25 because they’re so small,
1:46:27 they get that extra personal attention.
1:46:28 They’re gonna get personal attention.
1:46:29 But those are, I just thought of,
1:46:32 and I can think of a dozen staff members right there
1:46:35 that we’re saving because we’re putting them,
1:46:38 we would put them in one place.
1:46:40 And again, I just have to push back
1:46:42 because I’ve got really large schools down in my end
1:46:44 who are making do with the same number of staff
1:46:47 for three times as many people of students.
1:46:50 So appreciate the question.
1:46:53 But I believe it absolutely will be a savings.
1:46:57 - Ms. Jackson, just so you know,
1:46:58 we get a lot of real tough questions.
1:47:00 You fire off as many as you have
1:47:02 ‘cause we’re ready for it.
1:47:03 But we would love to answer anything you have
1:47:05 ‘cause that’s what we appreciate you being here today.
1:47:07 So don’t feel like you can’t ask anything.
1:47:09 So go ahead, Ms. Bright.
1:47:11 - No, I was just gonna also comment on the fact
1:47:13 that a lot of times when you see a savings like that
1:47:14 and we say, okay, it’s gonna save $2 1/2 million,
1:47:16 what you expect to see is a budget reduced
1:47:19 by $2 1/2 million ‘cause now you saved that, right?
1:47:21 In essence, but that doesn’t always translate out
1:47:23 exactly that way because unfortunately,
1:47:25 inflationary costs have gone up.
1:47:26 I mean, the cost of everything,
1:47:28 insurance, our electric bills, our F&L,
1:47:30 we’re all getting hit with all these same things.
1:47:32 So while it may save you on one side,
1:47:35 you’re gonna see something else that increases
1:47:36 a lot of times, which is why the budgets
1:47:38 continue to increase, so.
1:47:41 - Okay, ma’am, yes, ma’am.
1:47:43 - Yes, thank you.
1:47:44 - Ms. King.
1:47:45 - Okay, do I have it?
1:47:49 It’s on, it’s on?
1:47:50 Okay, all right.
1:47:51 I might be putting the cart before the horse.
1:47:54 But I am curious about what the,
1:47:57 let’s assume that the school board decides
1:48:00 we’re gonna close Cape View Elementary.
1:48:02 The school board, under the Florida Constitution,
1:48:05 has the authority to do whatever it decides
1:48:08 votes to do with the property.
1:48:10 Have you given any thought to what you’re going to do
1:48:12 with that property?
1:48:14 - I think Dr. Endell said the staff’s conversation
1:48:16 is to sell, but we haven’t even gotten there.
1:48:18 - You haven’t.
1:48:19 - I didn’t wanna think that was appropriate, Ms. King,
1:48:21 just because we haven’t made the decision
1:48:22 for the first piece.
1:48:23 We wanted to give you the opportunity ahead of time.
1:48:25 And again, if you guys, if that was the decision,
1:48:28 which I don’t even think we talk about it now,
1:48:30 but I would say that if you wanted to come
1:48:31 to another meeting and explain anything,
1:48:34 I as a chairman would be more than willing to work
1:48:36 with whatever you guys need.
1:48:38 - Okay, the second part to that is that I have heard
1:48:41 from various people that the possibility
1:48:44 of a STEM school being put in that area
1:48:47 rather than selling the property or maybe leasing it
1:48:51 for another use, another educational use.
1:48:54 And again, maybe I’m putting the cart before the horse.
1:48:57 As you’ve said, you’ve not discussed what you would do
1:48:59 with that property if and when.
1:49:01 But that’s something that I think needs to be considered.
1:49:04 - Yeah, and just so you know, Ms. King,
1:49:06 and I’m sorry that you guys at any time wanna speak up.
1:49:11 So I called a couple of the charters across the area
1:49:14 that I know have interest in everything else.
1:49:17 And their break point to create a charter is around 500
1:49:20 to where it’s revenue, to where it’s worth it
1:49:22 for somebody to come in.
1:49:23 Not saying that if you didn’t put something in there,
1:49:25 it might be able to attract more.
1:49:27 But they had all indicated that there was not enough students
1:49:30 that were there to put a charter school in there
1:49:32 to their magnitude.
1:49:33 Now, that’s not to say we’ve seen charter schools come up
1:49:36 that are smaller than that and everything else.
1:49:38 So I think those conversations are post a vote
1:49:41 and everything else.
1:49:41 But Ms. King, I as the chairman would be more than willing
1:49:44 to work with you guys.
1:49:45 I can’t speak from other board members,
1:49:46 but I think we get through voting on this first
1:49:49 and then however that goes, we make decisions based on that.
1:49:52 - All right, thank you.
1:49:53 - Yes, ma’am.
1:49:54 Anybody else?
1:49:56 You guys good?
1:49:57 Yes, sir.
1:49:58 Sir.
1:50:01 - On shuttering as an option, was that discussed?
1:50:04 - What was that saying?
1:50:05 - Shuttering the school as opposed to just closing it
1:50:08 outright.
1:50:09 - You’re saying instead of– - Closing the doors.
1:50:10 - You’re saying instead of close it and shutter it,
1:50:14 but don’t sell it, don’t do anything until there’s a plan
1:50:16 and then come back to it is what you’re saying?
1:50:18 - Potentially, yes.
1:50:18 - So maybe there’s an opportunity that you’re saying
1:50:21 that things might change in the year that we do it
1:50:23 and then reopen it.
1:50:25 I don’t know any of that yet.
1:50:27 I have not, we have not.
1:50:28 This is, from what you see, other meetings,
1:50:31 this is the first time.
1:50:33 This is the, we only meet together, right?
1:50:35 So everything that we’ve had is online
1:50:37 and we have not discussed that from what I remember.
1:50:41 So okay, when it comes time, if that’s the direction,
1:50:43 we can talk about that.
1:50:45 - Thank you.
1:50:46 - Is there any other, feels good, everybody good?
1:50:49 All right, well listen, you guys,
1:50:51 all the public that came here today,
1:50:52 we appreciate you guys.
1:50:53 Thank you for coming out.
1:50:54 City of Cape Canaveral, I wanna tell you,
1:50:56 I really appreciate you guys reaching out.
1:50:59 The last about three, four years,
1:51:01 I’ve tried to get us together with other cities,
1:51:03 but we’re always meeting at the same time on Tuesday.
1:51:06 So it’s very difficult.
1:51:07 So Mayor Morrison, appreciate you and your leadership
1:51:10 and all your city council’s leadership.
1:51:12 We appreciate you guys and your staff.
1:51:14 You guys are very professional, Kane.
1:51:16 Many people may not know, but Ms. Esther saved me.
1:51:20 She, I left, I think it was my iPad or something,
1:51:22 and she ended up holding onto it for a full day
1:51:25 after a League of Cities meeting for me so I could go back
1:51:27 and get it, so I wanted to say thank you so much for that.
1:51:29 So, what’s that?
1:51:31 Anyways, I appreciate you guys.
1:51:32 Thank you so much.
1:51:33 This meeting’s over.
1:51:35 - Thank you.
1:51:38 - Maybe some pictures of my kids.
1:51:40 - Yeah, yeah, thank you.
1:51:47 (upbeat music)
1:52:25 (silence)